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Lord Rennard

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Lord Rennard

Old 22nd Jan 2014, 15:16
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Lord Rennard

Now I don't want to be appear to be defending him.I think he is certainly guilty of some substantial long term, albeit low level, harassment but I think what he is most guilty of is being a stereotype letch.Fat,ugly,sweaty and unappealing,and that's just his good points.

I do wonder if the molester had been George C Loonie whether we would be hearing a squeak from his accusers.But,that apart it seems that what he has done doesn't clear the bar for criminal prosecution and quite probably not even that for a civil action.
So to ask him to put his own neck in the noose by apologising is a bit much.Especially as one of his accusers refused to rule out action for damages when questioned by his Paxoness the other night.
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 15:23
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I remember seeing a beautiful you tube about sexual harassment.

In each segment it showed an identical scenario with an extremely good looking chap, and then the same event with a guy whose attractiveness was roughly on a par with Lord Rennards.

Needless to say, mr Handsomes slap on the arse went down very well, while the Rennard lookalikes slap was cause for summoning the police.

The motto: 'Be attractive'...

( I thought it said more about the girls really, but maybe that's your point?)
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 15:55
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I remember being indoctrinated on a course about sexual harassment in the workplace many years ago and thinking it was a load of politically correct fluff at the time. Years later I had to deal with a member of my staff who came to me and said she wanted to leave. As I didn't want to lose her (she was particularly good at her job) I asked her why she wanted to leave, and she burst into tears and told me that she couldn't take the sexual harassment from one of my team any longer.

To say I was shocked was a bit of an understatement, as I'd never noticed anything from the accused individual, so I discreetly asked some of the lady members of the team for an off-the-record view of the individual who was the cause of this. The majority of them said they weren't comfortable with the way he invaded their personal space and made comments like "are you OK, love, or do you need a hug?".

When I confronted the chap and said he had to change his behaviour in the workplace he was shocked and upset, as he had no idea that his "open and friendly manner" as he put it, was causing offence.

The problem is that harassment is in the eye of the beholder. What might be acceptable to one person as just light hearted banter may be seen as threatening, creepy or offensive by another (and those were the actual words used by some of the ladies when describing this bloke).

I think there's a generation thing here, too. In my case the bloke was the oldest member of the team, the ladies that were most offended were amongst the youngest. One of the older ladies on the team didn't find him offensive and said she just accepted that he was what he was.
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 16:07
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I worked in a couple of factories in my youth and the bulk of the workforce was female..Some of them were,not to put to fine a point on it,crude.I can remember being given a temporary job in the office and being invited to test drive one of the women's new Austin 1300GT.Vera must have been sixty and a spinster.She made it quite clear that if I so chose I could get my cocoa there three times every week.
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 16:13
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My office somewhat reluctantly appointed a SH reporting point about 25 years ago (~24 people, half and half, all knew each other pretty well).

I jokingly suggested an annual ‘sexual harassment day’ when the rules would not apply. Everybody thought it was a great idea.
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 16:19
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VP959 is spot on. The test is whether the behaviour is perceived as harassment by the person on the receiving end of it (so behaviour that one might tolerate quite happily from Mr. Clooney may still be harassment if it came from Lord Rennard).

Therefore it pays to err on the side of caution when interacting with others in the office. If you know you've got a great relationship with someone and that they're comfortable with how you behave, fine. If you've got reason to doubt, don't do it.

I think it's true that society's tolerance levels have dropped though. I put up with behaviour 20 years ago (in London law firms - not just from lawyers though) that I'm sure employees now would speak out about - my tolerance was greater then because of prevailing social conditions than theirs would be now.
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 16:29
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It's an interesting observation in light of some of the sexual harassment cases going through the courts at the moment.

I don't condone any of the things which have been alleged against several of our best known figures from the entertainment industry, but what's clearly inappropriate behaviour today may not have seemed so (to the perps) 30 years ago.
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 16:47
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I think it's mostly money-grubbing lawyers that have brought the situation about.

Not so many years ago they wouldn't even have considered some of the current crop of cases.
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 16:52
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I suppose the slap of the face that one might have received if one had overstepped the mark 40 years ago would now be grounds to sue for assualt?
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 17:08
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The test is whether the behaviour is perceived as harassment by the person on the receiving end of it
Rather like the woman who said one of her male colleagues was harassing her, so she was asked what he'd said, to which the reply was : "Every time he walks past me he tells me my hair smells nice ......."
"That's not really harassment but I'll have a word with him, who is it?"
"Well, it's that 2 foot nothing midget in office automation ..........."
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 18:45
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As pointed out, the whole SH issue (outside of blatant occurrences) is a very grey area and the only way it can be covered by companies is to have an over the top and overly PC policy. My observations are that the whole SH issue seems to be directed towards males in their conduct towards females, whilst like Queen Victoria's attitude to Lesbianism "It doesn't exist, women would never do that!", it would appear that there is no SH from women towards men apparently

I have, it has to be said experienced what would be classed today as SH and even sexual assault by both women and gay men over the years. I often wonder what would have happened to the purpetrators in the present day and age.....Women amongst themselves display a magnificently robust crudeness that might shock many a recalcitrant male should they experience an all female environment, especially in a large office/company/factory. It's a minefield, so it's just better to be cordial and professional, unless you look like George Clooney (or me)



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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 19:46
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it would appear that there is no SH from women towards men apparently

Personally my attitude when at work was that none of the ladies who worked for me ever sexually harassed me or could sexually harass me. I was flattered by it: but I would also have regarded it as childish to take offence and childish to regard it as being harassment.

To this statement, the ladies on JB will no doubt reply, "oh that's all very well to write, after all you, OFSO are a man..." to which my answer is and an adult as were my staff.

I do remember a couple of mild instances where a passing caress from a man to a woman gave offence to the woman, and having been annoyed, she responded in an appropriate manner on the spot with a punch in the stomach/kick in the balls - and the man* learned his lesson. And he was too ashamed to tell anyone about it.

* Not OFSO by the way.
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 20:01
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Years ago 3 Stewardesses tried to take my trousers off me in the fwd galley on a 1-11 during a full flight. I didn't complain and when they succeeded they got the surprise of their lives!

If that happened today I guess I'd be headline news in the DM
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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 20:06
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Years ago 3 Stewardesses tried to take my trousers off me in the fwd galley on a 1-11 during a full flight. I didn't complain and when they succeeded they got the surprise of their lives!
They discovered that you were female ? Let me guess, you had gone commando that day ?



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Old 22nd Jan 2014, 20:26
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Years ago when I was an apprentice at Filton, it was lunchtime on a hot summers day anyway I came across two cleaning ladies sunbathing at the back of the hangar one of who's legs were slightly akimbo I happened to glance over straightaway one of them shouts to me " is it winkin at thee"
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 12:59
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The whole Rennard thing is a most peculiar affair anyway. Clegg-the-wet ignored the whole sorry affair for (years?) by his own admission. Then it boils up. Rennard’s effectively found ‘not proved’. Not enough evidence. Can’t take any action against him; not enough evidence but that it is recommended that he apologise (for what, exactly? ‘I’m sorry you decided to take offence’?). But Clegg-the-sanctimonious declares that Rennard MUST follow the recommendation and apologise. Rennard declines to incriminate himself (he can hardly be blamed for that, can he?) Clegg-the-eejit takes great umbrage that Rennard won’t do as he’s told (erm… isn’t that against the entire principle of the LibDemSDP?) Rennard threatens to sue and seeks an injunction. It’s now getting quite simply brilliant. The SDPDemLibs are going to detonate as a heavyweight and a sop fight it out, likely in court. Whilst this is going on, the next parliament is heading for ‘no overall majority’. DemSDPLibs will have spontaneously combusted, meaning UKIP picks their partner, dosey-does and the left are stitched up entirely – including Nude-Labour-Lite (or Dave, as it’s also known). Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of dolts, could it?

I wish someone would SH me
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 13:06
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What I cannot understand is why Clegg is asking a man to apologise who has been cleared of doing something wrong - OK, it's "not proven", same difference - knowing that such an apology will then be construed as an admission of liability, rendering him liable to a civil prosecution from a bunch of women who lacked the courage to take any direct action at the time the alleged offence occured.

Is Clegg completely stupid ?

(Oh, sorry).
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 13:24
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I wish someone would SH me
Odd as it may seem, it's not pleasant, as the person who does it is likely to be someone you would find very unappealing, as happened to me twice.

Once when I was in my twenties a very fat unattractive blonde girl who worked in a travel agency which I had to visit as sales rep for the airline I worked for asked me to take her out for lunch as she had some business to discuss. Thinking this was genuine, I took her out and there was 'business', she was looking for a boyfriend. She started calling me and sending notes to the office, and found out my home telephone number even though it was unlisted, started phoning me at home. It was irritating rather than distressing.

More recently, there was a woman in her forties on a seminar I was running. She was very nervous and highly strung and had a perspiration problem, not very appealing. She invited herself out to lunch with me and I had to listen to her life story - rather sad admittedly. Her parents had left Hungary during the revolution and moved to England wheere she was born and she had a pretty lousy upbringing. During the afternoon tea break I was in the kitchen making myself tea, she followed me in and offered to 'help' me, like I need help making tea FFS! Then came and stood really close to me breathing her garlic breath all over me. When I turned round she put her arms round me and just about stuck her tongue down my throat, it was really quite unpleasant.

We would all of course like to be sexually harassed by a petite twenty year old blonde with large assets and so on, but guys


It's not going to happen!
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 14:17
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I wish someone would SH me
Tongue (mine) firmly in (my own) cheek.

We would all of course like to be sexually harassed by a petite twenty year old blonde with large assets and so on, but guys
...we can all dream
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Old 23rd Jan 2014, 14:26
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breathing her garlic breath all over me
Sounds more like sensory harrassment to me.
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