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Cruel and Unusual Punishment ?

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Cruel and Unusual Punishment ?

Old 17th Jan 2014, 17:54
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Cruel and Unusual Punishment ?

Following a wasted youth at law school, there remains somewhere in the dark dim corners of my memory, a phrase "cruel and unusual punishment."

I was a little surprised by this phrase

In court proceedings last week, an Ohio state prosecutor said bluntly: “You're not entitled to a pain-free execution,” and a judge allowed the execution to proceed.
in this case.... Ohio executes inmate using untried, untested lethal injection method | World news | The Guardian



As a self confessed, sandal wearing, Guardian reading namby pamby sort of guy, I was even more surprised with the little sense of joy on reading this story.

Of course, there are no winners.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 17:59
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Tough. No sympathy.

"McGuire, 53, was executed for the 1989 rape and murder of Joy Stewart, who was 22 and about 30-weeks pregnant at the time. Her unborn child also died. Members of Stewart’s family were present at his execution, and before it they put out a statement that said the manner in which McGuire was put to death was more humane than the brutal way he had murdered Joy."
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 17:59
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Untried and untested sure. It has now been tested I believe.

Who else could they have tested it on? The screws?
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:02
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No indeed, but the disgustingmost losers are the namby pamby sandal wearing Guardian readers who apply sufficient pressure in Europe so as to have the export of Propofol to the States banned. This prescribes only the alternative of a painful death for the miscreants and the probability of eternal damnation for themselves at such time as the hearts are weighed in the balance.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:03
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Gingernut, anyone who equates "strange movements and gasping" with some sort of torture, has never observed a general anesthetic. Many patients gasp, or twitch. I expect that having been given a big dose of whatever, the perp here was rendered unconscious very quickly.

That begs the question of comparing the perp's demise with his victim's.

I think if folks are opposed to the death penalty, that's fine. But this episode is simply an attempt at rationalization.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:06
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Should not State Executions of Citizens t be a bit repugnant.....so we don't get too comfortable with it being done?

While you are at it....consider the crimes that the Condemned had perpetrated to earn that Sentence.

He raped and murdered by stabbing, an eight month pregnant newly wed young woman.

Compare her suffering and pain as an innocent victim to any pain this fellow felt during his death?

I absolutely detest the Lethal Injection method of execution.

I very much like the notion of the Gas Chamber, Gallows and Hanging, or even the Guillotine.

I want the Condemned Person to know his Death is imminent and that there is absolutely nothing he can do to stop it. The thought that goes through the mind when they hear the Pellets drop into the acid, the trap fall from beneath their feet, or the falling of the blade is the last thing they consider as they leave this Life.

That to me is the ultimate punishment.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:08
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Now that I think of it, I would actually like there to be a significant amount of discomfort experienced by those who have been convicted of tortuous, hideous murders as we, the public take their lives as they took the lives of innocents.

Serves them right.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:08
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Question for those in the know re the difference between putting animals down and injecting humans.

Only had to put one animal down, dog, when they administered the syringe
of green whatever, her heart stopped almost immediately (I had a hand feeling the pulse) and she went limp straight away in my arms. It was as fast as when I have
put down sheep with a knife via the throat / spine.

So if we can put down animals that quickly, why not humans ?
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:11
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No indeed, but the disgustingmost losers are the namby pamby sandal wearing Guardian readers
I'm totally opposed to the death penalty - in all cases.

I've never read the Guardian in my life

Anyone who calls me namby pamby to my face will get a punch on the nose!



So if we can put down animals that quickly, why not humans ?

I suspect because those in favour of the death penalty dont want it to be quick. Pierrepoint reckoned to get a prisoner from sitting in the condemned cell to hanging lifeless on the end of a rope in around 15 seconds - much more efficient than this lethal injection nonsense. But as Pierrepoint himself eventually came to acknowledge even his "humane" method was ultimately useless as a deterrent and only served to provide vengeance.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:13
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Relax Ginge, very soon the usual will be along to explain how the damn punk / perp etc kinda got what he deserved ...yes sir !

However, this cute little story beggars belief..... and in Texas as well !....who would have believed it !

Texas teen kills four in drunken crash but gets probation after parents? wealth blamed | The Raw Story

After all, most of those who will defend the death penalty on this thread are also the most vocal about accepting responsibility and, erm, the problems caused by...dysfunctional parenting ( always with regard to those who are clearly only fit to live on council estates of course ) stereotyping is so much simpler than reasoning in this respect.

Edited to say if there is a Guiness Book of Records section for the "Fastest Defence of the Indefensible Response on JB ", there are two prime contenders.....well done chaps !
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:16
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It's a long time since I was in a theatre with proper actors Obs G :-)

I have some use of using Midazolam clinically, and have even had a little trial myself. . (Tooth extraction).

I can't remember anything about the incident. I believe it erases memory, but doesn't take away pain, which is an interesting concept. Did I have pain during my tooth extraction ? Did it matter if I can't remember it ?? Does memory matter if you're being put to death ???

From memory, it did completely erase my memory. I've been told (by Mrs G), that I wanted to go dancing and made a pass at my mother in law- now that IS frightening.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:21
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Unusual : maybe. Who cares?

Cruel : probably. Good. Not only does it serve as a deterrent (arguably) but it ensures permanent removal from the surface of the earth of such lowlife and ensures beyond any doubt that they won't reoffend.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:28
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Bollix! execution should hurt.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 18:44
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I dont know about injecting humans but I was told by a vet that the mixture he uses to kill pets is mostly an extremely rapid muscle relaxant, heart stops and animal goes limp without any distressing twitching or thrashing about. Nothing like cutting the throat and breaking the sheep's neck or chopping the head off the Sunday lunch chook.

Keeping someone on death row until they have served what would in other countries be a 'life' sentence then executing them seems weird enough but what really takes the cake is keeping juveniles in prison until they are old enough to execute, WTF?
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 19:05
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Thanks for the shout-out, Lone_Ranger!

I agree with you also on the matter that the executions should take place within hours of the conviction. Think of the money we could save by not housing the vermin for decades while they await their punishment.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 19:09
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Don't worry the people enforcing these policies will describe themselves as good christians........this makes it all OK
But not a word or thought for the victims. A young pregnant woman raped and murdered.

Not much to be Christian about in those acts.

Vermin eradication. Why should he get to continue processing oxygen when he forced his view and choice on his victim?
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 19:24
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Pierrepoint reckoned to get a prisoner from sitting in the condemned cell to hanging lifeless on the end of a rope in around 15 seconds
If I remember correctly, Syd Dernley one of his assistants said the quickest on record was 9 seconds

When you think of the American method of strapping them in and then reading out the charge and finally asking for last words the British method really was the most humane
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 19:29
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Should the victim's family have a say in the execution? What if they want to be all 'Christian' and forgive the perp? What say the state governor (or whoever) grants a pardon should the family be able to demand the execution go ahead?

So many questions to answer when a country practices the death penalty.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 19:29
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If it had been one of my daughters he'd raped and murdered, I would wish upon him the most hideous and painful death imaginable.
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 19:45
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export of Propofol to the States banned
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life ...
[somehow that lot doesn't count as ten characters ...???!!]
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