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Ever more wind turbines to be erected..

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Ever more wind turbines to be erected..

Old 16th Jun 2014, 06:31
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Planet Claire
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Onetrack
Yes, it looks like a wonderful turbine, and I can see how it could be a great motor or compressor, or pump even.

Might do well in a hydro plant as a replacement for the combined turbine/ water pumps they use. Or as someone else said, to replace the conventional steam turbines that are so widely used.

Don't see it replacing wind turbines though. Sadly.

Utterly brilliant design.

I knew Tesla was a clever geezer, but that's about the most elegant design of anything, that I've ever seen.
I wonder if Viktor Shauberger would have approved?
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 09:19
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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So how efficient is the very large power grid going to be?

What are the insulator losses per mile at 400kV? What is the line resistance per mile for a 400kV line?

Obviously, there's a balance point between insulator losses and line loss for a given amount of power transfer. Transformer losses mustn't be forgotten, either - although transformers are efficient, the losses must still be substantial (although a low percentage) or they wouldn't need oil cooling. There's also inverter losses.

So if I generate 1GW of DC (1.34 mega-horsepower) from the windmill in the north of Scotland, how much 240 volt 50Hz will I be able to extract in Cornwall?
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 18:55
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Radeng,
The power losses will be the same as for "conventional power stations"
but of course you could always refurbish Battersea, throw the lovies out of the Tate and build a Nuke on Tower Hamlets!
Most bigger turbines generate AC, our old girl drives a squirrel cage motor to produce 415V AC.
Things have improved a lot since she was designed with off the shelf components, some of the MW machines are now using cryo cooling to cut losses in the generators due to heating. There are myriad methods of variable speed drives to allow synchronisation with the grid as well.
Wind turbines have improved a lot since Trumpton, with the exception there is generally no Scrumpy!
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 19:45
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Windy, I agree with your sentiments but may I make a slight alteration?
On your second line delete BUILD and insert DROP.
Thank you.
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Old 16th Jun 2014, 22:54
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Rosevidney1
I suppose you've got to look on the brighter side of life.
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Old 17th Jun 2014, 08:02
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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When it's in the middle of winter, everybody is freezing cold and the wind is blowing wet snow at about 0 degrees, Do they have to shut down the turbines because of blade icing.
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Old 17th Jun 2014, 08:26
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
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So if I generate 1GW of DC (1.34 mega-horsepower) from the windmill in the north of Scotland, how much 240 volt 50Hz will I be able to extract in Cornwall?
I read a beauty in a newspaper a while back suggesting that, for exactly that reason, to get the generation closer to those that use that electricity, Hyde Park should converted to a wind farm before any more beautiful countryside is defaced. Nice one!!

1GW from the windmill in the north of Scotland? You'll be lucky!! Much, much less than that produced by ALL the 'wind farms' in Scotland right now (in fact two of them are actually consuming electricity!). See:RWE Innogy - Renewable energy for Europe
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Old 17th Jun 2014, 19:26
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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On the question of losses, a 400kV line, transmitting 500MVA, loses about 50W/m.

Over a distance of 100km, you'll lose 100,000 x 50 = 5,000,000W. Or 5MW. Or 1% if you exclude Power Factor. So roughly 99% efficient over that distance. Of course, that's very rough...so many factors to consider. Increase the conductor size (this is based on 630mm2) and the losses reduce significantly...
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 09:00
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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NWSRG,

Thanks. So the 2,347 kW being produced by ALL the (RWE) wind turbines in Scotland, the 1,409 kW produced by North of England wind turbines, the 6,064 kW produced by the wind turbines in Wales and the 839 kW produced by the wind turbines in Cornwall right now (that is 10.7 MW in total) shouldn't 'travel' many hundreds of km in order to have much left for consumers to use? Probably enough left to charge the batteries of a few electric cars in London. And all those ugly wind turbines just for that?

Why, oh why, do the 'greenies' get so hooked on such a waste of space, money and time that defaces so much of the beautiful countryside when it is so spectacularly ineffective?
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 09:11
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Tries,

Because it is green and it doesn't matter if it is ineffective, wasteful or costly as long as it is green.
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 10:48
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Because it is green and it doesn't matter if it is ineffective, wasteful or costly as long as it is green.
Which means it's not "green" at all.
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 12:39
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Garden of England
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Posts: 165
As a retired engineer, I reserve the right to look at the hysterical frenzy over windmills/windfarms with a jaundiced eye. I don't have any significant examples anywhere near my residence at present. But given the alarming headlong rush towards shoving up large numbers of them all over the UK, even in the meteorologically least windy parts like mine, I can't bank on this situation continuing indefinitely.

I have at least had a bit of a look-see at an example of one of the big ones, open to the public. About 12 years ago, I climbed the windmill at Swaffham, Norfolk, by means of the internal staircase up to the viewing gallery. The gallery was apparently designed by the Architect Sir Norman Foster, who we are told also designed the Gherkin and Wembley Stadium. Since he also designed the "Wobbly Bridge" in London, I was slightly reminded of this by the rhythmic swaying of the windmill as the very large sails turned in the wind and drove the generator gears. Although I was interested in what I saw, I was not in the least persuaded that I would like to have a monstrosity like it anywhere near me. So I felt a certain sympathy with the good folk of Swaffham, previously a very nice sleepy market town that I have visited many times.

The Green Britain Centre, Norfolk - Our Green Energy - Ecotricity
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Old 20th Jun 2014, 09:43
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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A significant advantage of viewing the beautiful countryside from that viewing gallery would have been that from there you would not have had your view spoilt by that monstrous white elephant because you were in it!! I am sure that by now that view has been vandalised with hoards more of those monstrous white elephants!

I see that the '16 MW' monstrosities nearest to me are now producing all off 74 kW!!! (And the next '9 MW' monstrosities down the road are 'producing' ... ... -34 kW!!!!!)
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Old 20th Jun 2014, 09:50
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Are they now generating AC directly? I am aware that some of the early ones produced DC and used invertors to get properly phased AC for the grid.

How do they get constant speed for the generator?
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Old 20th Jun 2014, 14:42
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Richmond Texas
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They don't. They are induction machines and rotate at slightly above synchronous speed when there is enough wind, God willing...

After an excellent landing etc...
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