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Climate Change debate

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Climate Change debate

Old 15th Oct 2015, 07:29
  #1601 (permalink)  
 
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Unnatural growth and development is not infinitely sustainable.
Nature has never bothered about that. Animal populations have grown as fast as their circumstances will allow and then suffered mass starvation when the circumstances don't. Pretty much the same as third-world population growth. Man is the only animal on this planet that has ever taken a sustained and coordinated effort to conserve his environment. But it is only developed man that has done so. Anyone who has been involved in any conservation study in third-world areas will know how the environment is devastated in the bid for third-world human survival (one simple example: the unsustained devastation of forestry for firewood). As a contrast, the developed world has the lowest population growth and the best efforts to sustain resources and the environment that have ever existed in human history (to use my previous example: sustainable forestry plantation came from developed economies). Man's only hope on this planet is through development.

But this has nothing to do with 'climate change' other than the fact that climate change has always dictated the pace of human development. NOT the other way around as those who somehow use dubious 'models' to 'prove' that man can somehow influence the climate like to claim. (Usually, as the source of funding for reports like the 'Stern Report' so clearly shows, in an attempt to find ways to tax the plebians more.)
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Old 15th Oct 2015, 11:39
  #1602 (permalink)  
 
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Greenland becoming green again

Pardon me if this has previously been posted, but here is some interesting research being conducted by the University of California, Irvine.

Greenland
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Old 15th Oct 2015, 11:55
  #1603 (permalink)  
 
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Canaries in the coal mine

NASA's Earth Minute: Greenland Ice

https://youtu.be/yLm7PSsvW8g
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Old 15th Oct 2015, 15:28
  #1604 (permalink)  
 
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"We are sitting back right now thinking "the change is small, not much is happening, theres still plenty of health left in the planet, we have only used 10%, 20% 30% of its resources" but doubling of the human population to 10+ billion people on the planet within the next two or three generations will have a devastating affect on the environment and make it unsustainable for us and most other mammals. Insects are going to thrive."

yupp, if humanity doesn't do something about it overpopulation will make huge problems for this planet long before any temperature rise comes into play

but let's just put virtual problem in front of us and wonder tomorrow how we didn't see the forest for the trees
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Old 15th Oct 2015, 17:59
  #1605 (permalink)  
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At age 33 you are, perhaps, right to be concerned, however at age 71 I really don't have a dog in this fight.

Even my grandchildren are unlikely to see the doom that is predicted, either from Climate Change or overpopulation (though they might well see changes in the make-up and politics/religion of Europe).

I doubt that I will be around to see my great grandchildren (although it is technically possible).
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Old 15th Oct 2015, 21:53
  #1606 (permalink)  
 
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yupp, if humanity doesn't do something about it overpopulation will make huge problems for this planet long before any temperature rise comes into play
Let's stipulate that overpopulation is a real problem. How do we solve that? It's very very obvious, but not politically correct. EVERY developed country has low or negative population growth. The way to stabilize the planet's human population is to bring modern development to every nation.
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Old 15th Oct 2015, 22:45
  #1607 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie
Man's only hope on this planet is through development.
Originally Posted by KenV
The way to stabilize the planet's human population is to bring modern development to every nation.
We agree on that one.
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Old 15th Oct 2015, 23:15
  #1608 (permalink)  
 
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"Modern development" to every nation? Every family with an air conditioned home? Every family with a car? Every family member will expect to live to 82 years of age.

How will this ultimately reduce global warming and global pollution without subsequent damage to the environment?
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Old 16th Oct 2015, 07:33
  #1609 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, "Modern development" to every nation?

Just look at the massive damage that is done to the environment by underdeveloped nations. The extremely dirty industries and two-stroke cars in the old 'Soviet' eastern Europe is a recent example. The mass deforestation for basics like firewood by much of Africa as another example. A study (using satellite data) has estimated that 25% of the man-made CO2 in the atmosphere (if you want to get hung up in that CO2 bogey-man) comes from African agricultural practices. And then that simple fact that the population growth in modern developed countries is far, far, far more sustainable than the population growth in underdeveloped countries.

Yes, "Modern development" to every nation!!
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 01:52
  #1610 (permalink)  
 
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Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 06:15
  #1612 (permalink)  
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Met Office shown to be wrong by its own data

In recent years the organisation's forecasts have become skewed by its obsession with global warming
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 08:00
  #1613 (permalink)  
 
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UN scientist Jacquie McGlade raps UK over renewables - BBC News

Right now, the 'wind farm' nearest to 'the Brewery' (which has an is producing an 'Installed Power' of '16 MW') is now 'producing' all of ... "-0.05 MW"!!!!!! (Yes, that is a negative figure!)
And no surprises there if you look at the obvious flaw with these 'wind' farms:
EGNM 190720Z 36005KT
EGCC 190720Z 36005KT
EGXE 190650Z 34001KT
EGNV 190720Z 33005KT
EGNT 190720Z 30001KT

Right now all eight 'wind farms' in the north of England, between the Humber and the Border, with a total 'Installed Power' of 129.4MW are producing a total of 0.05 MW!!! That is 0.000387% of 'capacity'.

What £@*&ing use are those ugly blots on the landscape???!!! It is time for us to 'rap' those quack scientists for trying to destroy our beautiful countryside by insisting on these wasteful, useless 'renewables'.
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 11:04
  #1614 (permalink)  
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human loss leaders

Why did humanity destroy witches many years ago? There was never any factual proof but thousands of innocent victims were drowned/burnt or disembowelled. Today we laugh at such stupidity and yet the same mindset reacts to Carbon Dioxide [present in minute amounts in our atmosphere that even so provides food and fuel for the world] as though it were both poison and pollutant. Which it patently is not. 400 parts per million excites the Greens into exploding with panic that we are doomed. Ignoring the increase in food output - supermarket tomatoes are grown in 1000-1500 ppm CO2 and our Nuclear Sub sailors live for months in 4-5000 parts per million atmospheres when on duty. It will be fun to see some of those all electric cars this winter with vastly less range and no heating providing proof that cars are in need of carbon based fuels for decades to come.

I suggest the greedy socio-political scientists who will 'adjust' actual observations to suit their
interests be made to destroy all wind farms and concentrate on developing Thorium energy devices that are fail safe, energy efficient and can supply communities without the need for the National Grid to be overloaded every winter.
Slimbridge has seen the very early arrival of migrating Bewick swans which usually herald a bitter early winter [as Siberia is doing atm]

Onwards and upwards all you peeps that want wind farms trashed.........
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 11:41
  #1615 (permalink)  
 
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Amazing that even in such "minute" amounts CO2 has such a large effect on the Earth's climate (as evidenced by ice records and other prehistoric telltales). You'd think that would make you worry about disrupting the balance but I guess that is a step too far for the reasoning capabilities of some here

Nope, nothing to see lads, CO2 is just plant food don't you know!
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 13:00
  #1616 (permalink)  
 
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... CO2 has such a large effect on the Earth's climate (as evidenced by ice records and other prehistoric telltales)
Chicken and egg story. There was CO2 variation when there was climate variation (as evidenced by ice records and other prehistoric telltales). Ahh, but which caused which. Did the climate variation cause the CO2 variation? And if not, has anyone been able to prove not? Or has this all just been modelling, 'correlation' and assumption?

Now what if something else was altering the climate and the CO2 variations were just a by-product? Would that then be a case that there has been a lot of barking up the wrong tree going on? And that barking has been impoverishing most of us (I say 'most' because some, like Gore et al, seem to have been anything but impoverished by it all) and destroying beautiful countryside with hideous and futile 'wind farms'. (That one that I quoted earlier today is 'up' to -0.01 MW now, by the way! Yes, still a negative figure.)

Now what else could be affecting that climate? I had an interesting discussion with an astrophysicist very recently about sunspot activity. Yes, there are the 11 year cycles, but what is of great interest is the variation of intensity of those cycles. The correlation with significant climate variation was very, very interesting. Scientists have known this. Politicians aren't interested. You can't tax sunspots. But from that information, it might be a very good idea to stock up on jumpers and start to shovel more of that CO2 stuff into the atmosphere if it's supposed to be making us warmer...
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 13:59
  #1617 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
Amazing that even in such "minute" amounts CO2 has such a large effect on the Earth's climate (as evidenced by ice records and other prehistoric telltales). You'd think that would make you worry about disrupting the balance but I guess that is a step too far for the reasoning capabilities of some here

Nope, nothing to see lads, CO2 is just plant food don't you know!
A step too far for some indeed - look how difficult they find it to differentiate between global warming and climate change. They conclude "it's not warming in my back garden hence it must be nonsense". I bet the Dodo had logic like that The Flat Earth society membership must have sky-rocketed.
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 16:08
  #1618 (permalink)  
 
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I am so glad Mr. Obama sees Global Warming to be the absolute greatest threat to Modern Western Societies. I would be dismayed if he considered Radical Islam or Iran with a ready ICBM tipped with a Nuclear Warhead in the same way as he does Global Warming.

We do not need any false priorities when it comes to the future of the World do we?
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 16:52
  #1619 (permalink)  
 
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The climate changes that are occurring are being caused by rotational harmonics.
Changing the center of gravity on any spinning object changes the rotational harmonics. The High Artic gets three weeks more day light than it did fifty years ago. All the mining and oil extractions that have happened will have more effect on the earth axis rotation and the axial wobble that is changing and getting more extreme wobbles every year.
Who knows where it will end as nobody is preparing for the possibility that the poles may reverse if they do not stop moving all these weights around the earth.
WE ARE DOOMED
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Old 19th Oct 2015, 17:14
  #1620 (permalink)  
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So we should send all those Arabs and Africans back to where they came from?
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