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Crash, Channel4

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Crash, Channel4

Old 11th Oct 2012, 22:20
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Crash, Channel4

Opinions? from them as know,one assumes some of you chaps watched it,I know I know tint quite finished yet.

Last edited by tony draper; 11th Oct 2012 at 22:45.
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Old 11th Oct 2012, 22:27
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not seen it yet mr D, on the hard drive, seen a trailer, looked a bit worrying that the remote control seemed to look like it was from "Tandy"
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Old 11th Oct 2012, 22:37
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Ok I wont tell you if the hero got the girl in the end or not,well made doc though,not sensationalized as they often are for dramatic effect.
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Old 11th Oct 2012, 22:58
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One obvious question from a layman who will only travel by sea, why have all the seats facing forward? that is unnecessary apart from two in the pointy end surely.
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Old 11th Oct 2012, 23:24
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Crabair always had the seats facing the blunt end. IIRC this was also done on Mil Charters?
I think a lot of the data obtained from the crash was invalidated by using an airframe developed in the 1960s. Also the crash site was not typical, comparing landing in the desert with, say, Kegworth or undershooting Heathrow, is apples and oranges.
Typical tv sensationalism.

Last edited by Lon More; 12th Oct 2012 at 08:37.
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Old 11th Oct 2012, 23:29
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Tony, Most military transports have rearward facing seats. Seem to remember when some someone asked why not on civilian aircraft the answer was the passengers wont like it.

Last edited by Squealing Pig; 11th Oct 2012 at 23:30.
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Old 11th Oct 2012, 23:32
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Hmmm, only $300,000 for a working 727? could have nearly afforded that machine meself.
When we had proper railway engines that ate coal and made steam with proper compartment one could choose to sit with one's back to the engine if one wished lest there was a dunch.

Last edited by tony draper; 11th Oct 2012 at 23:35.
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Old 11th Oct 2012, 23:49
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Tony D

I wonder if anyone has published a scientific paper based on the scientific data obtained in the test?

The precepts of the test seem to have some value, as it was said in the film that the fuselage was representative of modern transports i.e the 737. Are there any experts here ? - They explained the shearing of the right main undercarriage well.

The bit that bothered me was the apparent lack of planning re the chase plane performance and and the dodgy SF fuel valve. Was that poetic licence or a profound lack of oversight ?

Also the remote control issues - A decent amplifier set would have helped. In the end it seemed a bit of a "Lets make a film effort" rather than anything determinately scientific.

CAT III

Last edited by CATIII-NDB; 11th Oct 2012 at 23:53.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 00:23
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I love the fact that now the two planned accidents, FAA 707 and the 727 we are talking about, did not go as planned, by 'accident'.

In the case of the 707 planned crash, the remote pilot turned off the yaw damper and lost control of the 707 just before the impact spot, causing the 707 to hit sideways rahter that straight ahead as was planned.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 00:50
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" the remote pilot turned off the yaw damper and lost control of the 707"

Any reason he did that ?

or was it an accident ?
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 00:54
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Defiantly more of a TV show than a scientific experiment, but apparently thats the only way they could finance it. Too much "Padding" at 1 1/2 hours, could have easily fitted the normal one hour slot with a little more editing. (But then we would have missed SO MANY adverts)! ((Surly Airbus missed a chance)).

I would have thought that the old design and construction standards of a 727 compared with modern design and different materials ie; Carbon Fibre, would make any data of little value?



Still think THUNDERBIRDS had a lot of answers to airliner crashes!
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 01:15
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Personally I think it was quite interesting.

It portrays accurately what would happen if a Boeing 727 had that exact crash, in the Mexican desert, at that exact weight, at that speed etc etc.

I don't think it was ever going to reveal any huge unknowns about air crashes, because there are very few air crashes that are going to happen with all the same parameters as that, but it was worth a watch.

I did feel a bit bad for poor "Big Flo" though.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 01:33
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Everything they "proved" was known 30 years ago i reckon. Survivability depends on the angle of impact and everything else is a bonus.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 02:02
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We discussed it over on the sister site to PPRuNe, if you want to read it.

Discovery Channel 727 Crash - Airline Pilot Central Forums
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 05:31
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I didn't watch the programme, however one has always preferred to sit at the rear when travelling as a pax ( one plonked ones posterior on the jump seat when working ) and as Lon states, H M. Gov't has all the seats rearward facing.

I understand it's the perception of the airlines / marketing Tamsin and Jazza types that pax would not like this configuration, thus it doesn't happen. Having said that, Dan-Air ( RIP ) had just such a partial configuration on their 727-100's I believe ? ( I knew a lady in the 80's who travelled to Malaga on a regular basis with them, and she thought the layout was brilliant ).

Not an particulary good link, but the stats are reasonably presented.

Airplane Crash - Safest Seat - How to Survive Plane Accident - NTSB Data - Flight Records - Popular Mechanics

The irony is that I have no problem rearward facing on an aircraft but always prefer forward on a train.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 07:48
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H M. Gov't has all the seats rearward facing
Only in the VC-10. The second-hand Tristars were conventionally laid out, and C-130 seating is sideways-facing. Someone a bit younger/more current might know how the C-17 and the Voyagers (A330 MRTT) are configured for pax use.

Last edited by airborne_artist; 12th Oct 2012 at 07:48.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 08:38
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I think they missed a golden opportunity by not having a set of rear facing seats with a crash dummy in it, preferably in the high G part of the A/C just to prove how much safer, or not, rear facing seats are.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 08:55
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The early Tridents had some rearward facing seats.
 
Old 12th Oct 2012, 08:59
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BEA had some of their seats on Tridents facing backwards. Felt very odd being pushed into the seatbelt on takeoff: also, if you had a 'front row', avoiding eye contact with the opposition at such moments was rather interesting.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 09:17
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Overall I thought the programme was pretty disappointing. It was apparent the production company had blown most of their budget on buying the aircraft and T&S for the cast and crew, hence the skimping on the chase a/c and Maplins technology to remotely pilot the 727.

The footage of the crash itself was a bit of an anti-climax and lacked any real impact (excuse the pun). Presumably most of the ground-based cameras were positioned around its intended crash site, hence the lack of any relatively close-up footage of its impact and break-up (apart from the cameras on-board).
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