Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 16th Aug 2015, 11:01
  #18361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 543
Hempy, so can I take it that you can bring yourself to ignore the Labor/Greens Senate, which has blocked virtually every bill the government has attempted to have passed to do something towards remedying the financial disaster the country is in after six years on Labor/Greens rule? They have even blocked bills that they espoused themselves before and during the last election.

What was the surplus when Labor won power?

What was the deficit when Labor was kicked out?

Apart from better insulated houses and grossly overpriced school halls, what was achieved in those six years in return for the expenditure? Do you consider the taxpayer got value for money for any of the grand schemes introduced by Rudd/Gillard/Rudd?

It would be really nice, (even "noice"), if just this once, you actually answered these questions before launching into your next attack against the Abbott government.
MTOW is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2015, 11:46
  #18362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,960
MTOW. Happy to sweetheart.

I don't comment on budget issues. I have enough trouble balancing my chequebook. You (and the LNP) seem to be of the stance that 'Surplus is Good' and 'Debt is Bad'. Fair enough, you're the 'experts'!

When Howard had the country in surplus, my life wasn't any better or worse than it is now, but the price of that surplus cost the average working Joe enough, through Workchoices etc, that he voted Howard out of office. Why? Because you can only cut meat off the bone so far before you start cutting bone, something you 'experts' seem to fail to understand. I notice that the US is 18.6 Trillion dollars in debt, yet they are still the worlds largest economy. Go figure!

As for the actual figures, I don't have the care factor to google them. You are internet savvy, you tell me. Yes Howard left a substantial surplus, and yes the ALP left a debt. In between was a thing called the GFC (remember that?).

Governments have been in a debt/surplus cycle before. You keep talking about history like a 60 year old trying to recant his youth. Personally, what's done is done..I'd like to know what the Government is doing now and in the future!

As to the Senate blocking bills? Call a double dissolution if you can't work around it. The people of Australia voted in the current Senate, I didn't.
Hempy is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2015, 12:52
  #18363 (permalink)  
RJM
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orstralia
Posts: 295
Small point - the 'better insulated houses' came at a cost of several lives, many fires and serious commercial damage to many businesses - which last Rudd promised ostentatiously to 'fix' but never did.

There's also a rumour that program was the direct result of lobbying by the two major Australian manufacturers of home insulation - Fletcher and CSR Bradford.
RJM is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2015, 13:14
  #18364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Back too the hot bits again
Posts: 78
Six months after the last attempted coup on Dum Dum and his " good government starts now" speech it appears he's back on the ropes again.
Even the liberal die hards on PPRuNe are finally showing signs of despair.
Well it took long enough!
Ethel the Aardvark is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 06:09
  #18365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 21
Hempy, the fact that you don't care about the debt shows the gulf that exists between the Left and Tge Right - the children and Tge adults - in this debate. We are coming from such diametrically differing starting points, there's no hope of reasoned debate.
Saltie is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 07:04
  #18366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 736
Now let me see.

Would I prefer my taxes be spent on schools, hospitals or defence.....or go to an offshore banker as some of the interest payable on extravagant government borrowings?
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 07:51
  #18367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,960
Originally Posted by Saltie
Hempy, the fact that you don't care about the debt shows the gulf that exists between the Left and Tge Right - the children and Tge adults - in this debate. We are coming from such diametrically differing starting points, there's no hope of reasoned debate.
I'm lost...what is 'the debate' again? I'm not in any debate about debt. As I said, I'm not qualified to comment. I guess you are an economist or something, are you?

As for 'the children and Tge adults' - please, spare the condescension for the 'grown ups' that take part in Question Time!

Tell me why you care? Money out of your pocket is there? Or are you just an altruistic type who cares about 'looking after the country'? I would admire the latter stance, but if so I think your attentions are a little misdirected barking up the 'debt tree'..

Hempy is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 07:51
  #18368 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,027
The left never worry about debt. It is other people's money to be handed out as they see fit. And if that runs out, just borrow more. After all, only the left truely knows what is best for us!
SOPS is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 07:54
  #18369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BNE, Australia
Posts: 279
Sovereign debt is a funny beast and poorly understood by the average punter.

It is not really similar to any kind of debt that mere mortals are likely to find themselves in. Reason number one is because you can't print more money if you ever find yourself in default with nothing in your purse to pay the bank.

If you could, then comparisons between the national budget and the one you argue over with your significant other might bear some weight!

Nevertheless, debt is not strictly a bad thing. Our entire system of civilisation is founded upon it. Better to have debt and citizens working in a healthy economy than no debt and depressed business confidence.
chuboy is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 08:46
  #18370 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 736
Chuboy
What was Australia's national debt in 2007?
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 09:38
  #18371 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BNE, Australia
Posts: 279
Interesting question.

A bit like asking what someone's rainy day fund was like a week before a huge storm floods their place and blows their roof off.

Then you look at the sorry state of it after the repairs are made and presume them to be an irresponsible spender, even though their house is in very good repair - compared to the neighbours who have leaks and broken appliances but won't break open the piggy bank.
chuboy is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 12:02
  #18372 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 21
Question: has anyone understood a word of what Hempy and Chuboy have said in their last posts?
Saltie is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 12:09
  #18373 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,960
Yeah I'd like an answer to that too Comprehension isn't a strong suit in this thread at the best of times
Hempy is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 12:16
  #18374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 72
Posts: 4,227
Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
The left never worry about debt. It is other people's money to be handed out as they see fit. And if that runs out, just borrow more. After all, only the left truely knows what is best for us!
John Eacott is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 12:46
  #18375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 736
Don't be too hard on Chuboy.
He's tried the standard 'deflect and divert' ploy to avoid giving a direct answer to a question that might take the discussion in an unwanted direction.

According to the script, we should now be discussing labor's great achievement in saving us from the Northern Hemisphere's Financial Crisis....and not focussing on how they trashed the economy.
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 20:58
  #18376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BNE, Australia
Posts: 279
$58.2B

If you really wanted to know you could have googled it as that information is widely available.

To me it looked like a transparent attempt to take the growth in government debt out of a very important context.

It seems skipping a few steps of working confused a few of you so I apologise for that

I would like to know what specifically makes you believe the economy is trashed and how that might be the fault of the Labor Party.
chuboy is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2015, 22:27
  #18377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 1,205
Where was the current outrage now being exhibited by ALL of the left supporters? Hypocrisy is their number one policy and it shows every time they post here, no matter what subject.
Cheers, Big Ears.
At the time, there was plenty of leftie outrage directed at Gillard and Rudd wrt their lack of support of SSM, and it sent a lot of seemingly rational lefties towards The Greens . However, the outrage was generally confined to leftie publications and gatherings rather than the MSM. Gillard/Rudd also lost fairly spectacularly, so for the current Opposition they're a shining example of Don't Do What Donny Don't Does.

Additionally, that was way back in 2013 and the SSM cause has gained a lot of traction since then, particularly after the Irish referendum.
What was Australia's national debt in 2007?
What's the national debt in 2015? Is it any better after two years of 'adults'? An adult government (and we've had several adult governments since 1980, from both sides of politics) is supposed to get a workable budget through the Senate, even when (as is typical) the Senate is politically hostile towards the Reps. Previous governments (again, from both sides) have repeatedly achieved this; that's why we paid them the big bucks and put up with their crap, because after all the usual carry-on they got on with it and governed. This mob haven't done that, any more than the R/G/R debacle managed during their tenure. We can sledge each other along partisan lines (it passes the time ), but TBH the current and immediate past federal governments are both as bad as each other.

We are living through an era of the three most teeth-grindingly awful Prime Ministers in Australian history (though admittedly I'm too young to remember Billy McMahon ), and it shows. Their lack of leadership, vision and their general crappiness (aided by their inner sanctums of nod-along, unelected Yes People who are incapable of telling them what they need to hear, as opposed to what they want to hear i.e. 'You're awesome, PM, don't listen to those nasty MPs, we know what's best, and here's a poll to back that up' ) have poisoned federal politics, and swamped the many decent MPs from both major parties with a sea of negativity, nastiness and party-groveller driven incompetence.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 17th Aug 2015 at 23:57.
Worrals in the wilds is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2015, 04:35
  #18378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Great South East, tired and retired
Posts: 2,833
Wouldn't it be nice if politicians had to tell the truth, instead of being professional liars.

Barry Jones was a truthful man, hugely intelligent (though he joined the Labor party...) and became the Science Minister. Sadly, he told the truth too many times and his masters didn't like that.
Ascend Charlie is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2015, 08:43
  #18379 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,027
I have said this before, and I will say it again. I know it would be very bad form to get rid of yet another PM, but I think it's time to put Scott Morrison in the top job. He would eat Shorten for breakfast.
SOPS is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2015, 13:37
  #18380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 21
I can't help but agree. If it was primarily all about making the best decision to get the Coalition re-elected, Tony Abbott should surely fall on his sword and step down. It's an unassailable fact that he is a negative factor with too many voters. It might not be fair, but it's a fact. However, the chances him accepting this are slim to zero.
Saltie is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.