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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 2nd Jul 2015, 08:43
  #17961 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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It's mad. Too bad we can't suggest he recruits himself and p*ss him off to Syria.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 09:15
  #17962 (permalink)  
 
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SOPS, as someone who lived in the Middle East for 20 years, I can assure you that the people from that part of the world utterly despise our authorities - and our legal system - for displaying what they see as craven weakness. In the Arab world, if you are in a position to wield power, you wield it - to the fullest extent you can.

The Arabs who have moved here cannot believe that our legal system bends over to accommodate them - and whenever it does, they promptly tighten the ratchet one cog more. And when they achieve that, they push and squeeze and demand until that ratchet clicks yet again. And then... 'click' - again. And again. And again.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 10:26
  #17963 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
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I lived in The ME for 9 years, MTOW. I know ecactly what you speak of.
But our huggy fluff legal type people just seem to want to bend over for them.

I also suggest he goes and does Ramadam in Syria.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 11:44
  #17964 (permalink)  
 
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So... the solution?
Do we also revert to the law of the jungle/desert because that's what they expect? If we do that, don't we descend to their level?

I'm not personally opposed to crab-pot justice (as both a Queenslander and a trade unionist ), but... where does it end? Our society is basically Anglo and as such, subscribes to the rule of law. Rule of law does not imply freedom or 'rights', but it does provide that one set of rules apply to all people in a non-arbitary fashion. It also provides for a fair trial, conducted in public.

Of course this is not the Middle-Eastern way, but it's our way. If we move away from that, then we move away from principles that were established within our culture in the 10th century and furthered throughout the following ten centuries to give us the systems of law and governance that we now hold dear.

If we succumb to their system and start applying their rules, then we do more harm to our own system than thousands of murderous yobs in Syria could dream of . We become as bad as they are, and the jungle/desert takes over.

Remember what you care about; remember what you believe in. There are times when the rule of law will look weak and impotent. There are times when the rule of conquest will look like a better option; easier, and a better way to quell the wit loudmouths who rejoice in killing people who are weaker than them.

When that's the case (and I've found that the 'kill 'em all' ethos has had some appeal recently) remember what the rule of law is about. Habeas corpus, mandamus...the old writs; rarely used in courts these days, but they are still valid and more importantly, they are still fundamental concepts that underpin our common and statute law. They (and other basic principles) are what separates us from IS and other murderous thugs who would seek to reinstate the law of the gun.

If ever you think it's easier to stray from these principles, you'd be right. It is easy, but when a society denies fair trials, when it hides the process, when it locks people up without judgement, when it permits public officials to act without redress and when it takes the easy way in the name of what's Right... it becomes as bad as they are, and surrenders everything that was achieved over so many centuries.
Then they win, and we're all as bad as each other. Let them despise us; last time I looked, a bunch of people were wanting to come here from there, not the other way around. Apart from a few troublemakers the majority are doing their best to settle in (which isn't easy), working their butts off and putting their kids through school. Maybe that says something about the system they left.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 2nd Jul 2015 at 12:28.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 11:54
  #17965 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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A very good argument Worrals, and of course in principle I agree with you.

But how are you going to get those Middle Eastern types now living here in Australia to agree to accept our Laws and ways?

The above is a genuine question as I have absolutely NFI how we could do it!

My personal opinion is until we do find such a way, and those abovementioned types accept the Western/Aussie way that we meet any force from them with greater overwhelming force!

Interpret that how you wish, anyone!

ah suppose with out them lawyers it'd be pistols at 20 paces. One body, one winner...
I must sadly admit to times where I think that the above would be a better idea!

But then again, I`m a good shot with a pistol, if I may say so.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 12:00
  #17966 (permalink)  
 
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As Worrals says, the words 'accused' and 'alleged' are, at this stage, a big part of the story. You can't pick and choose who gets 'fair' and who doesn't based on race, creed, religion, orientation etc. Not in this country...unless you want to lower yourselves to their standards.

He'll have his day in court, and if '12 men good and true' find him guilty, he wont be spending Ramadan in a Mosque any time soon. Until then though, trial by PPRuNe doesn't count...(I'd be doing 20+ hard labour for sure).
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 12:32
  #17967 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
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Ok, never let it be said that I live on the far right all the time, I accept Worrals thoughts, and tend to agree.....with one however....they can't have it both ways, the accept our laws and way of life, or they don't. If they don't, they leave.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 13:07
  #17968 (permalink)  
410
 
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Police have raided the offices of Labor parliamentarian Noreen Hay, (the same Noreen Hay who starred in the ICAC inquiry into Woolongong Council some years ago). It would seem that Ms Hay might owe her election, which she won by a very few votes, in part to a largish number of people who moved into the electorate immediately before the election - and every one of them moved to the same address, a house that is owned to one of Ms Hay's supporters.

Shades of Sophie Mirabella's narrow loss in the Victorian electorate of Indi.

Surely this, if true, (the allegations have not been proven yet), should be sufficient evidence that electoral reform is overdue and must be introduced immediately - certainly before the introduction of same sex marriage. Photo ID at the very least, but also an electronic voter's register and a revocation of the change that Bob Hawke introduced allowing voters to vote in any booth - all these must be introduced before the 2016 election. Any Party that resists these changes is admitting that it is paerty to electoral fraud.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 13:23
  #17969 (permalink)  
 
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SOPS,
"If they don't, they leave."

Erm, what are the chances of that happening, do you think?
You don't seem to realise that God (Allah) is on their side and that they will ultimately prevail. Got it?
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 14:22
  #17970 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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electoral reform is overdue
So is reform of the Labor Party. It must stop being a means to personal advancement and return to being a vehicle for delivering social justice as it once was.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 17:09
  #17971 (permalink)  
 
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"The Arabs who have moved here cannot believe that our legal system bends over to accommodate them"

I dont live in oz anymore but could someone give several examples of how the oz legal system "bends to accomodate" Arab folk?

Can Arabs speed down freeways without triggering the flashing of blue lights? Can they overstay a parking meter without a ticket? Maybe they can commit murder?

What exactly is happening in oz to make you insecure folk think that 1% of the population is going to change the legal system for the remaining 99% of uninformed boguns?
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 21:45
  #17972 (permalink)  
 
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What exactly is happening in oz to make you insecure folk think that 1% of the population is going to change the legal system for the remaining 99% of uninformed boguns?
Does something tell you otherwise?
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 21:56
  #17973 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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Fair enough, then he probably ran it and wore the risk.
Worrals, the apportion of costs have yet to be considered by the courts. Given the courts determination that it was primarily the headline and advertising banner that defamed Hockey rather than the text of any articles by the media involved, Hockey could bear some of the costs and may not receive the full benefit of the damages awarded him.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 22:05
  #17974 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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I dont live in oz anymore but could someone give several examples of how the oz legal system "bends to accomodate" Arab folk?
oicur12.again, I suggest that the recent instance of Zaky Mallah's statements on the ABC program Q&A are an example of at least the accommodation of a large proportion of the public of an 'Arab's un-politically correct opinions.

If a mature white male, especially a conservative one, had made the same comments on Q&A and in the associated tweets, he would have been pilloried by that same proportion of the population. That's not the same as being accommodated by the legal system, but Mallah's appearance on the program and the ABC's defence of it is certainly indicative of a level of accommodation offered by society.
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Old 2nd Jul 2015, 23:30
  #17975 (permalink)  
 
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Oicur12, one example that springs to mind is mothers and other family members in court screaming abuse and threats at the magistrate and witnesses when their son is sentenced. If an Anglo did that, she'd be charged with contempt. Ladies wearing a veil are not - our courts make allowances for 'cultural differences'.

Also Carlita Matthews, after video evidence proved she has perjured herself, got off because - because the woman who delivered the complaint to the police station was wearing full face cover - it could not be proven to have been Ms Matthews. Even though she had spoken on TV accusing the policeman of tearing off her veil.

After the Cronulla riots, convoys of BMWs came into beach suburbs and burned out cars. I did not hear of one arrest over that, but I'm sure there would have been hundred of traffic cameras showing the number plates of the cars in those convoys.
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 00:07
  #17976 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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It looks as though the coming ALP conference is not going to be about policy, but about the maintainance of union power within the ALP.

With union membership at around 17% of the workforce, the ALP Left is demanding that 50% of delegates at the ALP national conference and in state ALP bodies be union appointees, with the conference to take place yearly instead of triennially. Unions would also have a 50% vote for Senate candidates, equal to the combined vote of MPs and the rank and file.

In other words, unless opposition to a union proposition was unanimous in the ALP's national and state forms, the union would prevail.

In a nice Orwellian touch, the AMWU which is sponsoring the move says that its intention is to 'democratise the ALP and to ensure that the critical voice of unions is heard.'
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 05:13
  #17977 (permalink)  
 
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As much as I like Tony and W, but taking the p!ss is very Australian.

All he needed was a victory banner behind him in one of the photo's
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 08:12
  #17978 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs down



If he flew on board in a 2 seater, it would have been worth the 'tea and bikkies' for the jock to make him hurl , or at least 'go to sleep' for a few seconds. Tool
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 08:52
  #17979 (permalink)  
 
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"Tool"....that's a good description for some including some on this blog.
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Old 3rd Jul 2015, 08:57
  #17980 (permalink)  
 
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Saltie ....I was in Brighton Le Sands shortly after the Cronulla troubles and saw a some of the problems caused by the "BMW" drivers. I took refuge inside the RSL there.Didn't read anything about it in the MSM and I've never seen any documentary on SBS so perhaps it was all a dream.
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