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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 20th Jun 2015, 23:13
  #17701 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth Western Australia
Age: 54
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how many evil priestly events do you want.
Ahh just like the rest of the population then. Or statistically are they worse?

If you are attacking one religion then you might as well include the other more respectable ones as well.
That would be true, except if your living in the past and comparing past events to today. Also there is also the whole order of magnitude comparision thing, circumstances of the particular society they are operating in at the time.

Another words when talking about the religion of peace I hold the clerics that have chosen to come here to a different standard as there home country.
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 11:21
  #17702 (permalink)  
 
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Location: Australia
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Many here and elsewhere are saying that Bill Shorten is finished. The sad fact is he could be filmed with his hand quite literally in the till and stuffing hundred dollar bills into a sack and if he remained leader of the ALP, 45% of the Australian electorate would still vote Labor.

My guess would be that at least 30% of that same electorate will turn up on election day and vote Labor not having heard one word about Labor's current - or any - travails, because they pay absolutely no attention to politics beyond knowing which 'pardee' gives them the most free stuff.

Such are the joys of compulsory voting.
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 12:09
  #17703 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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because they pay absolutely no attention to politics beyond knowing which 'pardee' gives them the most free stuff.
Which brings to mind something that my dear late Father; a Senior Law Clerk with a long established and well respected Law firm in a rural area of South Australia,(and they still are, but under another name after 80 or so years) said to to me back in the mid 70`s, one evening after dinner when we were watching the evening TV News.

I forget now the exact circumstances but a Politician was being interviewed for some reason and he made the comment that much more exposure on Political views should be given on both radio and TV because.....(and here I quote as I remember it)

`The average Politician treats the average voter as if he was a blithering idiot!`

I well remember my Father`s comment to that statement;

`And that`s because they bloody well are!

My point being; That maybe MTOW has in another way, made my dear Father`s point!
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 12:20
  #17704 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
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Look lets face it, the leftys hate the fact the boats have stopped. My sister vapours about it. Labour said..it could not be done..impossible. The greens said...me must bring them in..by the millions and give them welfare.

My sister said, we must give up all fossil fuel now, live by ' natural means' and open the borders. ( she means, flood the place with anyone who wants to show up. And pay them welfare. When questioned on where this money will come from as most of industry is shut down due to lack of wind and we can't deliver good due to lack of fuel...she just says you are all wrong),

My point is...they will vote for Bill even if he was shown to kill baby seals by hand...the left cannot believe it's not correct in all areas, they know best what is good for all of us...
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 12:35
  #17705 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Now officially on Life's scrap heap, now being an Age Pensioner and not liking it one little bit! I'd rather be flying but in the meantime still continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
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When questioned on where this money will come from as most of industry is shut down due to lack of wind and we can't deliver good due to lack of fuel...she just says you are all wrong),
SOPS; Mate!! Is she really that thick?????

She says we are all wrong. What proof/evidence/support/whatever does she give to back up her claims?

Yeah, I already know.... none whatsoever! She actually believes it; therefore it is an indisputable and inviolable fact! End of argument!!

I really fear for what is to come in the future. I really do!!
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 13:18
  #17706 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
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Actually Pinky, she is not thick, has a PHDS in something clever. But never used it in her quest to become the Eco warrior, save us all from ourselves guru, for the world.

She is an expert on how to raise your kids, although she has none, what you do with your life..if you are wandering from the green ' chosen path' , how much you drink, how much fun is allowed....it goes on and on.

I will PM you.
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 15:17
  #17707 (permalink)  
RJM
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I commiserate with you, SOPS. In my case, it's my Leftie brother in Melbourne. He reads nothing but Fairfax, believes the ABC and threatens to hang up if I ask practical questions about his climate change alarmism or his unrealistic politics.
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 21:18
  #17708 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile, is anyone aware of any bookies' odds being offered on Bill Shorten being given the heave ho by his Labor mates? He's looking more and more like a racketeer and grubby standover man.
Don't forget that within the labour movement, being a racketeer and grubby standover man are not necessarily seen as bad qualities . It's a bit like when leftie types complain that Abbott is high handed, mean and in bed with Big Business; again, many Liberals don't see these as bad qualities in a leader. Judging either leader by the other party's standards/values is like comparing apples with potatoes. Fair is foul and foul is fair.

To answer your question, IMO it depends on how he goes in the RC, and also how the National Conference in late July pans out. If his RC performance is lousy it will impact on the opinion polls, and if the National Conference turns into a punch-on it may impact on his internal standing.

However, Labor have learned the hard way that changing leaders can be a Really Bad Move , so like the Coalition, I think they may still be gun shy. Also like the the Coalition, the hard question is who to replace him with. While both major parties have some good Ministers, none of them really stand out as shining leaders; certainly not to the extent that a spill (with all the associated knifings, leaks and eye gouging) is worth the risk.

Purely my 2.004c (including GST ). I could turn out to be completely wrong and he may end up gettng a free set of steak knives from behind (it's the Labor way ) but personally, I wouldn't bet on anything happening before those two events.
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Old 21st Jun 2015, 22:36
  #17709 (permalink)  
 
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As is often the case, I find myself in furious agreement with Worrals' analysis. The vital missing link - and what may save Shorten - is a credible replacement. Pill-berserk? (Sic - sorry, I can't even bring myself to learn how to spell the woman's name.) I think even the left wing of the Pardee can see that she shows too many signs of, given half a chance, toppling Julia Gillard from her lofty throne as Labor's Worst Leader. I can't even be bothered to list the other contenders. Not one of them shone as Ministers in the R/G/R years and nor has their performance in Opposition since been anything to be proud of.

Geoffrey Archer wrote a book once where it was a case of 'last man standing' who got to be PM in his fictional England, where the man who won the top job was certainly not the best of the three characters, but more the one who survived, retaining and developing all his faults, but remaining the most politically intact.

If he wanted to re-write his book using some real life contemporary characters in another parliament 12,000 miles away from Westminster, I daresay he's come up with a similar result. The only downside to that would be that no one, at least outside Australia, would believe his plot line nor what he had his characters do to hang on to power.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 00:49
  #17710 (permalink)  
 
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I would have thought Albanese would be the next most obvious replacement seeing how narrowly he missed being appointed Opposition Leader in the first place.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 01:15
  #17711 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
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Yes Chuboy, he came very close, two thirds of ALP voters wanted him but one third, (That just happened to include the unions), didn't! That is ALP democracy!
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 01:26
  #17712 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps that post need a smiley to communicate the dry sarcasm!
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 07:49
  #17713 (permalink)  
410
 
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Both Paul Murray and Chris Kenny played an ad. produced (and promptly withdrawn) by a union showing lots of outsiders moving into a homeowners' house and then demanding the owner move out but keep paying for the upkeep of the house. The union's intention was to show that the Trade Union Movement were the real "owners" of the Labor Party and not the "blow ins" (the Greenies and inner city latte set) and that they should reclaim it.

However, I for one thought it painted a rather disturbingly accurate picture of what's happening to all of Australia and with one small but rapidly growing section of our recent (and ongoing) migrant intake.

Anyone else see the ad. and come to a similar conclusion?
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 10:15
  #17714 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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Immigrants aside, it's still crap. 18% of the workforce is in a union, down from 50% 20 years ago. If you discount public servants, it's 11%.

Why shouldn't the minority which controls the minority who are union members run a party which gets around 50% of the national vote?
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 10:31
  #17715 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Australia
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Reports tonight that both "Aussies" Sharrouf and Elomar have been killed in fighting in Mosul.

Not cleanly nor quickly, one can but hope.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 10:34
  #17716 (permalink)  
 
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RJM. Why? Because the average working man likes to know that there is someone on their side, and not the blood-sucking, profit for themselves Double Bay blue bloods I'd suggest.

Regardless of 'unionism', the ALP exists for the rights of the worker. Untill you get rid of all those dirty money grabbing workers, good luck with your wish for your 'one party' (actually 2, it's called a 'Coalition' for a reason..) aristocracy.

Member of AFAP are we?
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 10:45
  #17717 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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RJM. Why? Because the average working man likes to know that there is someone on their side, and not the blood-sucking, profit for themselves Double Bay blue bloods I'd suggest.
I'm not anti-union, Hempy. People who offer their labour rather than capital require representation in the process of business.

I am interested in fairness and democracy.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 10:54
  #17718 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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I would have thought Albanese would be the next most obvious replacement seeing how narrowly he missed being appointed Opposition Leader in the first place.
Good point. Albanese scored 60% of the vote of ALP members and Shorten 40%, but Shorten got 60% of the government (ie faction representatives') vote.

If Shorten goes, the politics of numbers will determine the choice as much as anything else. The Left will probably provide the next Leader, the Right being out of favour after 'their go' with Shorten. If a few more centrist unions swing behind the Left, which is likely, then it's either Albanese or Plibersek. I suggest Plkibersek is considered more aggressive than Albanese and female, guaranteeing an automatic large vote from that 50%.

The factions will do the numbers, and vote accordingly. The rank and file won't matter. Of course, that situation will accelerate the downward spiral in union membership, especially now that even support from the Fairfax press for the ALP as it presently operates is weakening.

Although most union leaders (ie members of the ALP Opposition) don't want to hear it, Albanese is correct. To survive, the ALP has to broaden its governance, and escape from the control of a special interest minority within it.

Like 'competition between banks' of a few decades ago, the whole country benefits from having a strong, representative Opposition, not a bunch of crooks fighting over diminishing spoils.

Last edited by RJM; 22nd Jun 2015 at 11:05.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 10:58
  #17719 (permalink)  
 
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I know I'm not the first to say it, but I believe Plibersek will achieve one outstanding feat if she gets the nod as Labor leader - she will, quite quickly, topple Julia Gillard from the top of the "Worst Ever Labor Leader" totem pole.
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Old 22nd Jun 2015, 11:09
  #17720 (permalink)  
 
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I would have thought Albanese would be the next most obvious replacement seeing how narrowly he missed being appointed Opposition Leader in the first place.
Sure, he came second. In other words, he lost . Slag the process all you like (everyone in the party does, for various reasons) but that's the process. Abbott only won leadership of the Coalition by one vote, but he won and that makes him the PM. Turnbull fans like to run the same argument, but it's equally fatuous wrt the Coalition. The rules are the rules and the game is the game.

Given that Albanese didn't get the job, I don't think he's flash enough to come in from behind and depose Shorten at the moment for the reasons listed above. Changing leaders is too big a hassle to end up with another middleweight. As previously stated I'm not a fan, and IMO appearing on the ABC show was not a good move for a shadow minister or an aspiring leader, if that's what he is. While the ABC is often criticised for being Labor friendly (and there are grounds for that criticism), The Killing Fields has been about as Labor friendly as a kick in the 'nads. The show has rated its little socks off and generated a lot of tea-room debate, which is good; it shows that 1. at least one network can create a great doco people will watch without relying on cooking, dancing or DIY home improvements and 2. Australians are still interested/engaged in politics. However, it hasn't helped Labor.
I suggest Plkibersek is considered more aggressive than Albanese and female, guaranteeing an automatic large vote from that 50%.
Actually, I don't agree with you on that. The ALP is a lot more sexist than it likes to admit; most of the female rah-rah stuff around preselection etc is window dressing to keep the latte types happy. Additionally, after Gillard (and Bligh in Queensland) I think the next time the party puts their faith in a Left faction female leader, we'll all be posting comment from our nursing-homes.
Why shouldn't the minority which controls the minority who are union members run a party which gets around 50% of the national vote?
Of course it's worth discussion, but at the end of the day that's an internal issue for the party to deal with. Presumably you're not a member . My understanding is that the Coalition have no member vote for their leaders whatsoever? If so (naturally I'm not a member) then their members don't have much influence on the leadership choice either.

Within Labor there have been some recent reforms to the voting structure to give the R&F more power, which the right have fought tooth and nail. While the Murdoch press likes to report that it's the evil left opposing reform, that's mainly because their few Labor sources/commentators are sqaurely from the right. The right claim that they'd like the branches to have more power, but IMO that's because they know damned well that it's a lot easier to stack a branch (or threaten its president) than it is to stack a union. Their preference was to leave everything unchanged with no direct R&F participation at all.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 22nd Jun 2015 at 13:18.
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