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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 8th May 2015, 11:51
  #17141 (permalink)  
 
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And also I submit that more than a few of the recent 'arrivals' seem to have an extremely exaggerated sense of 'entitlement,' a refusal to even attempt to integrate and also a distinct aversion to any forms of work!
Some of them, yes. However, many others have settled down and gotten work in industries the rest of us scorn; cleaning, security, labrouring, service stations et al. Lots of new Australian faces there; all working hard for low wages and often with crappy conditions.
Perhaps all the previous Labour voters in Brighton couldn't bring themselves to vote Tory even if their own party of choice was so much on the nose.
Perhaps then the Tories should have tried harder.
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Old 8th May 2015, 12:22
  #17142 (permalink)  
 
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Pinky, I'm sense that if PPRuNe had existed in the mid-60's you would have been on here with an opinion on 'wogs' stealing our jobs, or in the mid-80's about Viet drug dealers and Leb gangsters. Just my opinion, though..

Worrals, the 'Green uprising' is simply a product of cause and effect. The two major parties have both shown their ineptitude, people are turning to the Greens for want of something different. I can only hope Xenophon has success launching a true 'Centre' party. The paucity of choice today is sending voters to an alternative that has no real policy on running a country.
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Old 8th May 2015, 12:28
  #17143 (permalink)  
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Pinky, I'm sense that if PPRuNe had existed in the mid-60's you would have been on here with an opinion on 'wogs' stealing our jobs, or in the mid-80's about Viet drug dealers and Leb gangsters. Just my opinion, though..
You are quite entitled to your opinion Hempy.

You'd be wrong though.
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Old 8th May 2015, 12:33
  #17144 (permalink)  
 
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I can only hope Xenophon has success launching a true 'Centre' party.
A true center partys, that s gold ROFL.

The paucity of choice today is sending voters to an alternative that has no real policy on running a country.
Yes their abandoning the majors in droves.

All the ones going to the greens are just to far left to allow for a moderate left in the labor party ( Yuck I think I need a shower after admitting that).

The ones going to the other partys like Katter and Pups are fruit loop right wingers and poor busted @rse bogan who are easy to take advantage of dreaming of past glories days.

Basic side effect of several things.
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Old 8th May 2015, 13:00
  #17145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rh200
A true center partys [sic], that s [sic] gold ROFL.
Care to expand on why that has you rolling on the floor with laughter?

p.s Pinky, no offence intended. I would have thought that given the tone of your other submissions here that I was simply stating the obvious. Apologies if I've misinterpreted..
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Old 8th May 2015, 20:18
  #17146 (permalink)  
 
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Has any journo ever published an article giving the line up in Parliament if we had a first past the post system like the Brits do? In the last two elections if not more, I suspect we'd see a very similar 'Labor bloodbath' here in Oz to the one LaboUr has just suffered in the UK.
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Old 8th May 2015, 21:55
  #17147 (permalink)  
 
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Care to expand on why that has you rolling on the floor with laughter?
Because I'm gathering in true socialist idealism, your idea of the center is a couple of standard deviations from the mean of the average Aussie.
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Old 9th May 2015, 08:12
  #17148 (permalink)  
 
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I can only hope Xenophon has success launching a true 'Centre' party
I dunno. I'm getting very dubious about messiah parties; Hanson, Katter and Palmer have not been a raging success. All they've really achieved is a lot of noisy bogan/hick soundbites and a split in the conservative vote.

Much as I like Senator X as a pollie (and I do) I don't see why 'his' party would be any different from the other three. The fact that he's naming it after himself is cause for concern . My understanding is that he is closet DLP, so maybe instead of jumping on the fruit loop messiah party bandwagon he would be better off revitalising and/or reinventing that party instead.
Has any journo ever published an article giving the line up in Parliament if we had a first past the post system like the Brits do?
Dunno, I'll have a squizz. It's an interesting question . Queensland has optional preferential voting (and relatively few voters take the option), but its elections haven't been noticably different from other states. It's also be complicated by the possibility that without preferences, people may vote differently. Again in Queensland, at the last election a surprising number of Green voters preferenced the LNP. Those votes filtered back to the LNP in close seats, and also failed to deliver a Green MP in any electorate. With that in mind, I don't know that FPP would make all that much difference.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 9th May 2015 at 08:33.
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Old 9th May 2015, 10:04
  #17149 (permalink)  
 
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... the rest of us scorn,"cleaning, security, service stations" etc. Sorry Worrals but that's a statement straight out of the hand book on why we, as in all western countries, need unlimited immigration.
Service stations. My two sons both worked at service stations before leaving school. Not much chance of that nowadays as most, if not all, around my neck of the woods are run, if not owned by persons from the Sub Continent.
Cleaning. Thirty or more years ago my wife, a qualified nurse, worked as a waitress in a cafeteria in Adelaide as we had 2 youngsters at primary school. ( she was sacked the day before Christmas when she owned up to wanting some time off during the holidays). She then went cleaning for a time until the boys were able to get themselves home from school safely after which she returned to nursing.
Labouring. I had a close friend, Dutch ,a qualified tradesman, who arrived in Australia in the late fifties. Two days after he arrived he was shipped off to the middle of the Nullabor to spend the next two years of his life labouring on the railway.That's just a couple of examples that doing menial jobs is not a recent phenomenon.
However, in the main, most got on with life in Australia. They put up with being sent to places such as Bonnegila, housed in Nissen huts in Port Adelaide along with multiple other familes ... with only a hanging blanket between each family space. And these were the legal immigrants, no one like SHY and the other useful idiots around in those days.
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Old 9th May 2015, 10:05
  #17150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Saltie View Post
Has any journo ever published an article giving the line up in Parliament if we had a first past the post system like the Brits do? In the last two elections if not more, I suspect we'd see a very similar 'Labor bloodbath' here in Oz to the one LaboUr has just suffered in the UK.
Hmmmm....

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Old 9th May 2015, 10:22
  #17151 (permalink)  
 
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Worrals, as I said "I can only hope"..

There are so many people who like to turn propositions into definitives around here to suit their argument
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Old 9th May 2015, 10:39
  #17152 (permalink)  
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True, but is that any different from Australia's previous waves of migrants? From the Brits and the Irish during the 1800s, the Europeans post WWII and then the Asian migrants throughout the 80s and 90s, what's changed? Of course what has changed is that those previous migrants came with government (if not always popular) support, whereas the recent boat arrivals (as opposed to approved arrivals, of whom there are many) have not.

However, I don't see much difference with respect to their motivation. I'd guess that most of us would be descended from people who originally came to Australia for the reasons you list; to improve their lives, give their children a better chance of success and escape lousy conditions in their country of birth.
Those comments are really based on a non-point, Worrals. There is a world of difference between arriving here uninvited and coming here 'with government support', by invitation!
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Old 9th May 2015, 11:03
  #17153 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, that difference being the level of public xenophobia that dictates government policy..
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Old 9th May 2015, 11:16
  #17154 (permalink)  
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I disagree, Hemp. There may be xenophobia in Austrlkaia, but the real reason for the government policy is simply prudent management of our borders. It's in our interest to know who comes here and to regulate the numbers of people arriving, whatever their reason. Departments of immigration are not the result of xenophobia. I could add that 'We determine who comes here and the circumstances under which they come', but I won't for fear of upsetting you.
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Old 9th May 2015, 11:49
  #17155 (permalink)  
 
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I agree that it shouldn't be 'open slather', but I'll also add that if we had a 'stop the boats at all costs' policy in the early 70's, our country would have been robbed of a generation of hard working immigrants looking for a safe place to call home. The difference today seems to be based on religious grounds, and that is certainly xenophobic (unless you call casting a net and calling all the catch 'sharks' reasonable)
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Old 9th May 2015, 12:04
  #17156 (permalink)  
 
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What gives with the Govt crying poor yet doling out money like it's going out of fashion. $1.3b for extra drugs on the PBS and $333m for drought aid to farmers today, oodles for child care a few days ago and offering to pay for nannies, big extra lump for WA also a few days ago. Are they trying to buy the electorate or what? Following the UK election have little recollection of Cameron offering cash to buy votes or do our pollies think we are that immature to fall for it?
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Old 9th May 2015, 12:12
  #17157 (permalink)  
 
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I don't recollect ANY previous immigrants that had a religion that strongly encouraged disobedience to the host country's laws if it didn't accord with its religious values; a religion that considered that anybody not adhering to its faith ought to be put to death; and a religion that foments dissatisfaction amongst its congregation to the extent that some of its religious houses and institutions actively encourage violence towards its host country.
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Old 9th May 2015, 12:26
  #17158 (permalink)  
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What was said above, 100 percent agree. Yesterday I was sitting at a shopping centre waiting for my wife, and was asked to move by a bearded person, because his wife was sitting at the opposite end of the seat and ' he was offended'. I won't bore you with the rest of the conversation.

My mate from Vietnam, who runs the local resturant, has no trouble in calling around for a beer with his family, and his quite happy if I sit next to his wife while we share a beverage, ( and some great Vietnamise food)
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Old 9th May 2015, 12:41
  #17159 (permalink)  
 
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And then you have my next door neighbour, who is the lovliest man you'll ever meet. A muslim, whose wife wears a hijab (out of choice), a family man who loves his children, his wife, and his adopted country. A man who brings his family over to share a bbq, and has no issue while I sink a VB as he is drinking apple juice. A man who works hard to support his family, earn a living, put a roof over his head, put food on the table and pay his taxes. A man who who has the same opinion of extremism as I do.

A man who fled his own country to give his family a better life. Call me 'huggy fluffy' all you like, but I'd like to think we are all bigger men than those that would be happy to deny opportunity through fear mongering and the odd bad apple.

"For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To Advance Australia Fair."

Apologies for any offence.
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Old 9th May 2015, 12:53
  #17160 (permalink)  
 
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a religion that considered that anybody not adhering to its faith ought to be put to death;
In living memory both Catholics and Protestants have pushed this view. Maybe not in Australia, but certainly in other parts of the world, including Ireland.
Yesterday I was sitting at a shopping centre waiting for my wife, and was asked to move by a bearded person, because his wife was sitting at the opposite end of the seat and ' he was offended'.
And I'm sure you gave the right answer, the second word of that answer being 'off'. There's no room for dheads here, but the art lies in separating the dheads from the reasonable people. What you met was a dhead in the wild, and I'm sure you told him that.
Departments of immigration are not the result of xenophobia.
Maybe not, but their actions can often be the result of bad staffing levels, poor funding and government apathy, which leads to the same outcome.
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