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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 12th Mar 2015, 08:03
  #16741 (permalink)  
 
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The aborigines are no different to any other human being on the planet. The fact is, integration is about forcing functions, Its just math.

If the forcing function is weak comparable to what you have, then it won't be solved, we have the same problem with various other ethnic groups since we have all gone huggy fluffy.

There has to be a balanced approach utilising both the proverbial stick and carrot.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 09:19
  #16742 (permalink)  
 
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This may be apocryphal, but whether that's the case or not, I believe there is some truth to the urban myth(?) that the failure of integration/assimilation (and therefore, the 'success' of multiculturalism?) can be seen in any suburb in France (and perhaps, equally in Australia?) with a high percentage of migrants from Arabic countries by noting the direction the satellite dishes in most homes are pointing.

Many, if not most, are pointing to pick up the Arabic satellite channels rather than the local satellite services. People can (and many do) come to the West and remain almost wholly enmeshed in the culture they left. Except when they pick up their Centrelink payments.

This clip, from Adelaide, is worth watching.
Farah 4 Kidz - Today Tonight Adelaide

Edited to add that I understand that the opposite is the case in many North African homes. All the satellite dishes point to pick up the French satellites - for the porn freely available on some French channels. People are funny, aren't they? The ones who haven't made it to the West want to be there and to enjoy what's available there and those who've made it yearn for an idealised version of what they've abandoned or supposedly escaped.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 09:58
  #16743 (permalink)  
 
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2 phantom pages now. The scissors are really out now!
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 11:49
  #16744 (permalink)  
 
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That second-hand story about the "Aboriginal taxi-service" is, putting it politely, at best, disingenuous. A better word to describe it, I think, starts with 'B' and ends with 'T'.
Stanwell,

May I politely correct you. The story was FIRST hand from a friend who'd spent many years delivering specialised medical services to indigenous Australians in WA, NT and QLD.

It could be dismissed as disingenous, but mostly by those who wear rose coloured glasses and don't want to believe there is an indigenous problem of epic proportion.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 12:50
  #16745 (permalink)  
 
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Fair enough, Ovation.
I'm sure, though, that you'd agree the indigenous population don't have a monopoly on 'rorts'.
MTOW's example above is a good one and there are many other examples happening right now - from politicians down - right under our noses.

I do know that the RFDS implemented measures many years ago to knock that sort of attempted rorting on the head.

".. an indigenous problem of epic proportion."
That was the reaction of the early 'settlers' to those troublesome blacks who objected to having their land stolen and their lifestyle destroyed.
The original inhabitants, who we displaced - largely by force, have now become 'barnacles on the @rse of our society', eh?

What do you propose as culturally-sensitive and humanitarian solutions to this 'problem', then?
.

Last edited by Stanwell; 12th Mar 2015 at 13:02.
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 14:16
  #16746 (permalink)  
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Slacking on your medication Crippen?

Considering the topic, always a remarkably civilised thread. In the last 4 weeks 3 posts deleted and in every case the deletion was by the poster who made it.

Rob
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Old 12th Mar 2015, 21:30
  #16747 (permalink)  
 
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it is not the people in the bush wasting the whiteman's tax money. Look closer to the urban areas at the gamon aboriginals being funded in their lifestyle. Go to a website called black steam train for a perspective on the issue
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 01:34
  #16748 (permalink)  
 
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Comments from Bill Shorten (a practising hypocrite) who said on 28 January 2013 (my bolding):


I donít want to stop people living where they want to live. On the other hand, do you ask every other taxpayer to subsidise peopleís lifestyle choices? I think thatís really hard Ö

This is the dilemma about living in some areas which are highly risky. I mean, do you stop people living there altogether? Or do you say, okay, but you need to be aware of the risks of where you build and live.
Different problem - QLD floods
Different people - Non indigenous
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 02:57
  #16749 (permalink)  
 
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Towns settlements have natural closed or been closed down in the past for a number of reasons.

The problem here is where dealing with what we affectionately call "Koala bears". The last I heard is they are looking at it anyway, not doing it. Once they come to a decision, then they will have to work out a plan.

In the end, like council amalgamations, it will probably get canned due to a few self interested selfish minorities, and be classed as to hard.

Some of these places are absolute sh!t holes, that cost a fortune to support and have nothing to do with aboriginal culture what so ever.
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 03:31
  #16750 (permalink)  
 
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Rh200 you appear to view "culture" through the prism of your European bias. This is understandable yet incorrect. To get a true understanding read the writings of Daisy Bates and others from that era.
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 06:00
  #16751 (permalink)  
 
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Rh200 you appear to view "culture" through the prism of your European bias.
Actually I view a culture though the eyes of an atheist scientist, not emotive [email protected] Religion is a culture, various local and social convolutions of behaviors are a culture. Boganisim is a culture. There's no rocket science in culture, human nature is well understood.

As we understand more of it we are able change things with less of a broadsword approach, but where not at the scalpel stage yet. The whole situation is exasperated by huggy fluffys and guilt over perceived sins of the past.

The whole feel sorry for ourselves because (insert past grevience here) and thats why we are down trodden and (insert result here) is another culture. We like to pick and choose the warm and fuzzy things to throw out as culture, to try and reinfoce the lefts view of multiculturism. But at the end of the day its just ignoring the facts and trying to redefine something to whats convenient.
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 07:43
  #16752 (permalink)  
 
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Rh200, your European bias won't let you see culture unless it comforms to your ethic. Inclusive or exclusive? Which school of thought on group values do you subscribe?

Edit: atheist scientist is a European construct��

Last edited by Eddie Dean; 14th Mar 2015 at 07:55.
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 08:02
  #16753 (permalink)  
 
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group values
Define, give a list if you like and I will deconvolve it myself.

At the end of the day I believe in trying to build a stable society where the standard deviation across the population in wealth is small. In essence that means the standard deviation of values should also be small.

Which is generally what most people want. The two big problems with that is, every one has a different idea on what those values should be, the other being how to get there.

The big issue with the left is, one half of them continue with this :"we are all wonderful beings" [email protected], and all we need is some sort of social justice. Nature does not subscribe to that. The other half know better and just want it to continue so they can maintain the rage.
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 08:33
  #16754 (permalink)  
 
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It's a straight forward question usually covered in most philosophy courses in where we establish our bias in ethics. Some believe ethics are inclusive of all populations(cultures) and some believe they can be exclusive and mono cultural in construct.
To wit: in western culture it is wrong to kill anyone, in some tribal culture it is wrong only to kill inside the tribe. Killing someone outside the group is of no consequence
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 10:56
  #16755 (permalink)  
 
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Eddie, in the early 70s I spent some time in a pretty remote part of PNG doing some work for the local administration in that sort of 'half way time' with the locals sort of half running the country under supervision just before Gough handed it over officially in '75. (Translation: [which, although true, will doubtlessly offend some here] - in the last years when the place more less still worked.)

We had a house boi who did what house bois do - kept the place clean, did our washing etc. He was a great young bloke - about 18, I think - and very likeable with half way decent English. He was the son of the headman in his village, which wasn't a long way from the airfield we were working from.

He went home every weekend (the villagers were all good Catholics, so he'd tell us about going to Mass before setting out to get back to work Sunday night).

One Monday afternoon, the police arrived and took our House boi away to the kalaboose, telling us he'd murdered a young man from the neighbouring village on the Sunday before (or it might have been after) going to Mass and then returning to work for us.

When we heard the whole tale, the story went like this: someone from the neighbouring village had killed a villager from our house boi's village. As the eldest son of the headman, it was his duty under the payback rule - (the universal law of Highlands) - to redress that wrong by doing the same to someone from that village.

He would have seen himself as a good Catholic, but his culture - that went far deeper than any religion introduced by missionaries - dictated that, as the future headman, he redress a wrong that had been done to the people of his village.

My guess would be that when he came out of the kalaboose, he would have been welcomed back to the village as a man deserving great respect and would have almost certainly become its headman when his father died. He would also have come back to the village far better equipped to be headman because of all the things he would have learned about the outside world while serving his time as a prisoner.

In our Western culture, he was a common murderer. In his culture, a man who had earned great respect for doing exactly what caused our culture to label him a common murderer.

It might offend some here, but there's almost as wide a gulf between our Western democratic culture and the root culture of many of the asylum seekers we have welcomed here over the last few years. And who live among us, many of them openly despising what they see as the weakness we display by adhering to the mores of our Western culture, particularly in our NOT stamping them down - and stamping them down hard - when they show how much they despise us.

AS they would do if the boot was on the other foot. And as they will do when the boot is eventually on the other foot, as they see as an inevitability.

The same applies to some second generation 'Australians', born here, but who have never surrendered their home culture.
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 11:27
  #16756 (permalink)  
 
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MTOW Exactly the point of bias in culture. Now if some can apply that to the aboriginal tradition the discussion could develop into an exchange of ideas
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 13:57
  #16757 (permalink)  
 
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the aboriginal tradition
Which "aboriginal tradition"?

Aboriginal culture is tribal based, with significant differences between even neighbouring tribal groups. Look at the stories of Warrabri/Ali Curung and Port Keats/Wadeye for examples of the problem.
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Old 14th Mar 2015, 19:03
  #16758 (permalink)  
 
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MTOW,
Observation, analysis, tempered with wisdom.
Thanks for that.
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Old 15th Mar 2015, 00:17
  #16759 (permalink)  
 
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Coodashooda sees the world through Balanda eyes. Clans fight continuously it strengthens the tribe. Telegraph camp is a long way from Port Keats
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Old 15th Mar 2015, 00:50
  #16760 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry.Eddie
Just conveying the views passed to me by old cricketing team mates like Charlie King (ABC) and Norm Fry (ex NLC) and supported in discussion with a range of desert and salt water community leaders in the 90's.

There is no "one" aboriginal tradition and consequently no "one size fits all" solution to whichever "problem" is under consideration.
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