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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 1st Feb 2015, 00:20
  #16061 (permalink)  
 
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I'll pass on your feedback to the many bogans I know who were asking me questions about it.
None of those issues came up; people were more curious about the hows and whys around judicial appointments. As most Aussies would be hard pressed to name a single current High Court Justice I was surprised myself.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 00:43
  #16062 (permalink)  
 
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None of those issues came up; people were more curious about the hows and whys around judicial appointments. As most Aussies would be hard pressed to name a single current High Court Justice I was surprised myself.
Don't worry Worrals, just taking the p!ss, being half bogan myself its alright.

Note I did put in
WTF is a judicial appointment?
.

We are ready seeing all the bull being wheeled out by left and right. Some commentators are saying its the new rise of the left, AKA see whats happening in Spain and Greece etc, the people are pissed off with government Austerity etc.

Lets not get over excited, depending upon the metric you use and the end overall numbers, its not that big of a deal.

Lets get this straight, the last election which Labor was wiped out, was an outlier, a land slide in the seat metric, not sure of the vote numbers though.

Whats the seat count now? More of a normalisation I would think, with a slight bias to the Labor party. Again not sure of the vote numbers.

I will say this again, Unless the LNP walked on water (not just think they did) there was always going to be a huge swing in seat count back to Labor this time around, there is no rocket science in this.

As such you shouldn't let the overall numbers distract from the relevant numbers, and that is the percentage of swingers who got pissed off.

As Worrals said in a earlier post, and is well known, there is a particular amount of voters who will vote along party lines come hell or high water, unless there is an extreme reason not to. Last time it was hell or high water for the Labor party, this time probably only small but reasonable size hard core LNP switched sides.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 01:46
  #16063 (permalink)  
 
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No worries.
They're counting on a Sunday, at the moment it's LNP 39, ALP 43, KAT 2, IND 1 with four in doubt. The seats in doubt are about 70% counted, with two going each way. If Labor gets the two they're leading they've won outright. If they get one they could form government with the independent Wellington, who's formed a cohesive government with Labor once before.

As you say, a fairly normal result in most circumstances. I think the Wow /Wtf factor has gotten people overly excited, but it is a huuuge shock, for both sides.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 05:07
  #16064 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rh200
there is (sic) a particular amount of voters who will vote along party lines come hell or high water
LOL! Most of them are on here bemoaning how the 'stupid electorate' don't know what's good for them by voting 'good government' out of office
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 05:45
  #16065 (permalink)  
 
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A question for you Hempy. Forget the politics. Just tell me. Do you really think that our society can survive if people demand a standard of living that we cannot afford and keep borrowing against the future to maintain that 'gimme something for nothing' lifestyle? Do you really think we can keep putting off the day the debt has to be paid? And when the money - or what that money can buy - is no longer available because there just isn't any more, (or there are no more 'rich' people from whom to take what they've earned to support those who put in nothing), what happens then?

Just a question I'd really like to see an answer to. (A question along the same lines as one that was repeatedly asked [and always went unanswered] on an earlier version of this thread: "What has the Rudd government done to warrant your support?")
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 06:20
  #16066 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fubaar View Post
Do you really think that our society can survive if people demand a standard of living that we cannot afford and keep borrowing against the future to maintain that 'gimme something for nothing' lifestyle?
No. Quite frankly, as a species we are living on borrowed time. We have been since the Industrial Age and it is perfectly unsustainable. That hasn't stopped anyone but the most "radical lefty socialist hippies" make the most of their insignificant lifetimes here on planet Earth though!

All this is conjecture is moot of course, Labor did not commit to nearly as much spending as the LNP did and should not need to "borrow against the future". Since every man and his dog started using the Internet to access live updates of every electoral promise a politician breaks in real time, the consequences of which have been manifested in the bloodbath elections of late, I doubt there is much appetite to go ahead and borrow money just for the sake of it
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 06:24
  #16067 (permalink)  
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maintain that 'gimme something for nothing' lifestyle?
Which unfortunately, now seems to be the normal attitude for almost an entire generation of Australians in a certain socio-economic section of society.

I remember only too vividly having a coffee with an ex girlfriend, and having to listen to her eldest daughter expound at length how she and her (unemployed at the time) partner were going to have a family straight away. She had already had one child with him and was pregnant again.

Her argument was that 'the Government' was going to pay for all of it!

I finally exploded!

"No it's not the Government who will be picking up the tab! It's the poor long suffering taxpayer! And this example of the poor long suffering taxpayer' and here I pointed to myself, 'is absolutely sick and (expletive deleted) tired of parasitical bludgers like you two who won't carry their own weight or take responsibility for your own actions!'

I slammed down my coffee and walked back to my car, got in and drove off.

Never saw them again, and the ex GF has never mentioned the incident in the few times we have subsequently met for coffee.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 06:40
  #16068 (permalink)  
 
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... I doubt there is much appetite to go ahead and borrow money just for the sake of it...

Not to worry. Won't take Labor long to rip the tits off that particular cat.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 06:59
  #16069 (permalink)  
 
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Not only is the 'gimme' mindset prevalent in the past few generations, but in the socialist ruling class.

Apparently it is an absolute scandal to consider leaving a world diminished by Climate Change to the detriment of our grandchildren, and their grandchildren, without leeching more taxes from the Australian public to justify the professionally outraged.

However, it appears to be perfectly acceptable to live beyond the means of the taxpayer and expect our grandchildren and their grandchildren to pick up the debt in order to fund the excesses of those in the corridors of power.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 07:34
  #16070 (permalink)  
 
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I see Scott ( vlad the impaler) Morrison has just axed the marriage councilling scheme, such a shame, it would of come in handy for pinky and his girlfriend
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 07:42
  #16071 (permalink)  
 
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Oh, I know..
But, the US of A, "The Leader of the Free World", leads the way, doesn't it?
Look how it handles its debt - and that debt didn't come from the tree-hugging socialists in its ranks, either.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 08:03
  #16072 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stanwell View Post
Oh, I know..
But, the US of A, "The Leader of the Free World", leads the way, doesn't it?
Look how it handles its debt - and that debt didn't come from the tree-hugging socialists in its ranks, either.
Whereas this thread is about Australia, and the massive swing from a positive amount of $billions in the kitty when Rudd took the helm, to the $hundreds of billions in debt when he took his taxpayer funded 'retirement' six years later.

But apparently that is perfectly acceptable, whilst trying to get the debt back under control is an absolute disgrace to the professional outraged when they aren't getting their taxpayer funded subsidies.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 08:13
  #16073 (permalink)  
 
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Quite a few of us waiting for your answer, Hempy.

Waiting... waiting...
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 08:41
  #16074 (permalink)  
 
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Me me me , let me answer this simple one,
G l o b a l f i a n a n c I a l c r i s i s. Do I get a gold star!!!!

I quite agree with you mtow maybe a better communicated mining tax would of been a solution, poor old porky pearls might of been a bit unhappy though.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 08:45
  #16075 (permalink)  
 
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Just a question I'd really like to see an answer to.
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
(to borrow from Ghostbusters)
Is that the answer you were seeking? I realise I probably should have referenced the European economic meltdown and the fall of communism.

If we're ignoring the politics we could also ask Howard-era Libs the same question, because there were plenty of middle class welfare handouts from that government, and nor were the Queensland LNP afraid to spend up big on stuff they liked. Both sides variously give out big wads of cash and/or tax breaks to their perceived target audience. One side call it welfare and the other call it incentives, but it amounts to the same thing in the end. Abbott's PPL is nothing more than yuppie welfare, and as of tonight (standing by for tomorrow's Press Club address ) he's still sticking with it.

Meanwhile, in the other alternate universe of Rabid-Tory-land...
People earning too little to buy anything other than necessities, too poor to get health care, too uncertain where their next buck is coming from to do anything except live hand to mouth... etc etc

We saw glimpses of this in Hockey's frantic pre-Christmas 'don't forget to spend, people! It's not really as bad as we made out, honest' speech, no doubt after some prodding from his retail mates in big business. Because the bulk of retail and leisure spending is on middle of the road stuff. Even so-called premium companies like Louis Vuitton make the bulk of their profit selling cheap goods like sunglasses and t-shirts to aspiring wannabes. Gina and the Packers can only buy so much stuff.

However, so far in Australia it hasn't got to either scenario, because governments that look like straying down those paths get voted out. Bligh's Labor spent like drunken sailors, and they got voted out. Gillard/Rudd's government got voted out. If those governments had been returned by the electorate then yes, I'd agree that your scenario of bankruptcy were feasible. Maybe that's what's happened in Greece et al. Nor (from my very limited knowledge) do the Greeks seem too fond of paying taxes. For the most part Australians cough up at least a portion of what they owe to the ATO, albeit begrudgingly and creatively.

It hasn't happened here, and I don't see it happening. Australians (correctly, IMO) get disgusted when they see a government spending too much, and they took that disgust to both the state and federal ballot boxes. However, they also get disgusted when they perceive cuts as being unreasonable (which is admittedly subjective), and targeting the bottom end of town in favour of the top.

Likewise, when Howard's government went more big business than the general population supported, they got voted out. If the Queensland LNP get hoofed, then it will be because the majority of voters didn't like the way they were going. They won with the biggest majority in Australian electoral history and managed to squander every seat within three years. As Richo said on the Sky coverage; the assumption that a government will automatically get two terms is gone. Anastacia's Facebook page comments make interesting reading; there are a lot of posts that can be summed up as 'Congrats. Don't cock it up'. Of course Abbott doesn't believe there's any relevance to online debate, so I guess he doesn't read his.

If the ALP get over the line and start spending like their predecessors, I don't think we need a clairvoyant to predict what will happen. They're very much on notice, and it will be interesting to see if they can figure that out. There are a few yellow-bin pollies back from the grave, and hopefully they won't fall back to their old ways. If they do... guess we'll be having the reverse debate in 2018.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 6th Feb 2015 at 09:15.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 08:51
  #16076 (permalink)  
 
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The problem is, once they start borrowing and spending, the damage is done.

Voting them out after one or two terms wont make it any easier to repay the debt, but someone has to do it. Guess who that might be?
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 09:59
  #16077 (permalink)  
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However, so far in Australia it hasn't got to either scenario, because governments that look like straying down those paths get voted out. Bligh's Labor spent like drunken sailors, and they got voted out. Gillard/Rudd's government got voted out.

Not really what is happening though, is it Worrals?


What is actually happening is that any LNP government, actually in power, that tries to rectify an abysmal situation that requires belt tightening and harsh fiscal control gets voted out because of the multitude of vacuous promises made by the ALP opposition who have no responsibility or power to do anything anyway but keep promising people that their hand-outs will continue, regardless. And please keep on having children you can't afford and whilst we are at it, lets allow a whole bunch of totally unqualified people in to Australia, despite their illegal method of arrival and questionable refugee status. Who cares? we will fund them and their extended families adinfinitum, after all, what we are really good at is spending other peoples money.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 10:03
  #16078 (permalink)  
 
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Guess who that might be?
Neither side of politics, according to this guy.
https://theconversation.com/profiles/mark-mcgovern-168
I don't know what his politics are (if any) but given that he lectures at QUT I very much doubt he's a rusted on Leftie. The University For the Real World reportedly has a shoot on sight policy wrt lefties , though presumably there are a few exceptions.
Having read the LNP and Labor economic plans, I’d like to be able to say that one or both parties have a clear plan to tackle the state’s debt – but they don’t.
Too many questions remain about crucial details of both major parties' plans. Queenslanders are being asked to vote on faith or ideology, not the full facts.
Queensland’s debt problems are systemic, and it will take more than a debate over asset sales to fix. Nor will austerity or GST hikes help.
https://theconversation.com/uncoveri...nds-debt-36218
One of the problems with economic arguments is that both sides have a massive arsenal of economists and they all crawl out of the woodwork towards their keyboards/media interviews whenever an election is called. I'm not an economist and I doubt that many other people here are either. Nor is economics a science, even when it's applied by apolitical professionals.
and whilst we are at it, lets allow a whole bunch of totally unqualified people in, despite their illegal method of arrival and questionable refugee status.
Would that be the 457 visa scheme? There are a lot more foreign tradie subcontractors wandering around my workplace than refugees, and their English is just as poor. Of course they'll get shoved in a shipping container and sent back home once they've done the job (or half done it ) and in rabid-Toryland that's a great outcome. Doesn't do much for the local unemployement rate though, or long term local growth. Nor does it win over voters.

And please keep on having children you can't afford
Yeah, cos Tone will save you with his PPL! Breed away and have faith that low interest rates, interest free repayments on luxury goods and credit card refinancing will never die. It's not just the bludging ferals who are still spending beyond their means and putting today ahead of tomorrow. Not by a long shot; the upwardly mobile Sunday barbie brigade (many of whom vote Liberal, or at least outwardly 'hate' the Labor party and their bogan union mates) are just as bad.

People voted for the Howard government even though they went to the polls touting a 10% GST, and they continued to vote for them in subsequent elections. People will vote for pain if they trust the party that's implementing it and they believe that party has integrity. The Qld LNP failed to convince their massive new support base that they were trustworthy, and went out of their way to antagonise, irritate and betray everyone who had voted for them, including many of their own supporters. The biggest vitriol sprays I've heard today came from LNP people, and they're not spitting at Labor. They're spitting at their own, just as lefties did when Bligh and Co got necked. It's remarkably parallel.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 1st Feb 2015 at 10:32.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 10:08
  #16079 (permalink)  
 
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I didn't watch Insiders this morning (my sock draw was in urgent need of re-arranging), but if this (below) is true, I wish I had.
On insiders this morning Barry Cassidy showed a clip of Jacqui Lambie having her say on the knighthood business. Cassidy, before showing the clip quipped something like, “I don’t know what it’s got to do with large dogs.”

And there’s our beloved senator saying.. “Tony Abbott has got to stop all this Knights and DANES stuff. We don’t need Knights and DANES in Astraya,” and on she went about these Knights and bloody DANES.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 10:23
  #16080 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
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No Worrals, as you well know, I'm not talking about 457 visa holders, as you know, a 457 visa is not easily come by if the rules are followed, there has been abuse but that is pretty much stopped now, (guess under which government most of the abuse took place, no clues!).


I'm talking about economic migrants from the Middle East who have large extended families but no useful qualifications and had they had a genuine reason to become refugees they would have come direct, complete with papers, and not risked their lives and tens of thousands of dollars to arrive on a leaky boat, sans papers. But you knew that, didn't you Worrals?
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