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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 3rd Feb 2014, 03:55
  #10701 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Victoria
Age: 58
Posts: 984
Joes looks as though he's spent his lifetime propping up the bar at his local RSL.
He could afford to lose a few more pounds, but he looks a lot fitter these days compared to about 12 months ago!
A good cleaner does need to go through some of the welfare recipient gene pool
Ain’t that the truth! There are generations of ‘welfare families’ in this country who will scream like stuck pigs when they have to actually get off their asses to get their money. However Joe will be fighting against a well entrenched sense of entitlement that has crept into the Australian psyche over the last few decades.
Captain Sand Dune is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 04:13
  #10702 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 730
the idea that an investor gets tax break on a house mortgage and a house owner gets nothing is the weirdest notion I have seen.
Didn't Keating try to kill off 'negative gearing'?

I have a vague memory that the effect on the housing sector was greater than he had foreseen and the tax breaks were brought back.

But I'm happy to be corrected.
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 04:14
  #10703 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 55
Posts: 4,244
Cooda

I think you are correct in what you say.
500N is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 04:23
  #10704 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 730
Thanks 500N. I thought I recalled a lot of media debate at the time - but the brain cells ain't what they woz.

Sorry we didn't catch up on your last visit. I copped a dose of Sydney's Pre-Xmas flu and have only now shaken it off.
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 04:35
  #10705 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 774
I don't know the source of this article but it's interesting to read what the Micks think of one of their own. Many here won't agree with the article but I urge you all to read it to get an idea of what some others rationally think.


Hopes that the Abbott Government might be competent, trustworthy and adult have been dashed across the community. Catholics especially feel betrayed, writes Alan Austin.

PERHAPS THE MOST PROFOUNDLY DISAPPOINTED group in Australia at the failure of Tony Abbott the prime minister and Tony Abbott the human being is the Roman Catholic community. Once a favoured son for his earnest faith, as evidenced by a stint in a seminary and earnest advocacy for Bible classes in schools, he is now a prodigal son.

Disquiet among Catholics derives not merely from his general failure to deliver what he promised, but from his repudiation of basic tenets of the Christian faith.

Bioethics and women

Catholic teaching is clear on both in vitro fertilisation and abortion. Both are wrong.

Abbott, however, out of a desire to limit the damage from past infamous anti-women comments has said he will not seek to limit either. Indeed, he tried to make political capital last year from revealing that a staffer kept her fertility drugs in his office fridge.

This has outraged conservative Catholic commentators.

One claims:

‘He has become a public scandal to such a point that nothing short of public condemnation by the Bishops or other prominent Catholics will do. His errors have sown confusion and on his current trajectory he will inflict much more damage in the Prime Ministerial years ahead.’
Truthfulness

A more mainstream concern is accountability and trust. Julia Gillard was hounded throughout her prime ministership for one broken promise – the notorious

“… no carbon tax under a government I lead …”
Not even the glaring reality that the voters had foisted upon her a hung parliament, minority government and a deal with the ornery Independents and Greens excused her.

Abbott said in August 2012:

‘Two years ago today, Julia Gillard lied to the Australian people about her plans for a carbon tax.’
Lied?

Tough love. Is Abbott certain she intended in her heart to break the promise at the time it was made? Either way, the standard was set — regardless of circumstances, a promise not fulfilled is a lie.

By that standard, Gillard told two, maybe three, ‘lies’ in her three years as PM. But Abbott is already guilty of twenty, maybe thirty.

Asylum seekers


Some of the most articulate criticism of Australia’s inhumane refugee policy appears in Catholic publications, including the highly-respected Jesuit journal Eureka Street.

An opinion piece this week by 30-year veteran foreign service officer Tony Kevin outlines four evils of Abbott’s policy – implemented by fellow Christian Scott Morrison.

According to Kevin, it:

violates international human rights law;
is diplomatically offensive to Indonesia;
employs lying and trickery to achieve its dubious ends; and
undermines Navy and Customs morale and professional standards.
Kevin is dismayed at the dishonesty – or bearing false witness, as scripture calls this – at the heart of Abbott’s policy.

Operation Sovereign Borders, he writes:

‘… has compounded the offence by an insincere ‘apology’ that claimed falsely that our Navy ships made ‘positional errors’ in Indonesia's complex archipelagic waters: a lie so readily refuted by commonsense logic and seamanship as to be grossly insulting to Indonesia.’
Harming the most vulnerable

Workers with refugees, including Catholics, have been shocked at the treatment many victims of oppression abroad have received after arriving in Abbott’s Australia.

A woman in detention who had just given birth in November was refused contact with her baby. Other failures of human decency are on the record.

The Catholic Justice and Peace Commission has implored the government to stop returning refugees to Sri Lanka.

Executive officer Peter Arndt asked:

‘How can they, in good conscience, send Sri Lankan Tamils back home when they know many [will] be forcibly disappeared and many are still being detained indefinitely and tortured?’

Militarisation

Names for the founder of the Christian faith include ‘Lamb of God’ and ‘Prince of Peace’. Not surprisingly, then, some Catholics are dismayed at the aggressive military stance the Abbott regime is taking in civilian matters.

‘The current dispute with Indonesia over border incursions by the Australian Navy is symptomatic of a deeper problem — the militarisation of political discourse.’
So wrote Justin Glyn in Eureka Street last week.

In Australia, he claims:

'… this is being taken to an extreme not previously seen outside authoritarian societies.'
Spying and threats to the ABC

Abbott’s outrage at the ABC for revealing details of Australia’s espionage was subjected to the studious scrutiny of Christian ethics by Eureka Street editor Michael Mullins.

Mullins writes:

‘At stake we have freedom of the press, and the independence and integrity of the ABC. These should not be given nor taken away on the whim of political or diplomatic expediency. The same can be said for spying itself, which is a potentially justifiable offence against human dignity. As such, it is akin to the just war and cannot be sanctioned lightly.’
Preferential option for the poor

From the earliest Biblical writings, the God of Israel has exhorted rulers to ‘defend the cause of the poor and the needy’ as the first priority of government.

This theme was amplified by Pope Francis in his Evangelii Gaudium in November, which attacked the “idolatry of money”.

The pontiff wrote:

'I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor.'
Abbott’s priorities are the diametric opposite.


One of his first decisions as PM was to slash $650 million from Australia’s already meagre overseas aid budget.

The bishops were quick to condemn this callousness, as Caritas Australia CEO Paul O’Callaghan wrote in the Catholic aid agency’s website:

‘Caritas urges the Government to … boost its overall aid funding commitment for the next four years. Australia’s Catholic Bishops called on the Government last year to exercise their responsibilities “not merely in our country’s narrow interests, but in the spirit of the common good of all humanity”.’
Commission of audit

Pope Francis would urge a good Catholic incoming PM to form a commission of audit to explore where the rich are taking advantage of the poor. For example, business executives on multi-million dollar salaries cutting workers’ wages; or tax concessions to corporations amounting to billions; or handouts to wealthy women to have babies.

The pope would want a committee representing the poor and the outcasts. Instead, Abbott has appointed a group of high income earners, headed by the president of the Business Council of Australia, which is exploring ways to shift wealth and income from the poor to the rich.

Indigenous justice

What frustrates many are the occasional glimpses of compassion in Abbott’s conduct. Promising the Yolngu in August that he would spend his first week as prime minister with them was a moving moment. On the verge of becoming PM, he seemed so sincere.

This and most other commitments to Aboriginal people from His Hollowness have all proven empty.

What do Catholics want?

Conservative blogger Kate Edwards at Australia Incognita wrote, after viewing the interviews with Paul Keating in November:

‘Listening to the Keating interview on the ABC last night was a treat, a reminder of just why he was such a great Prime Minister and a role model for Catholics in the public square. Here was a politician talking about the importance of seeking the true, the good and the beautiful! About seeking perfection in public policy. About valuing the advice of elders. That is true Catholicism at work.’

Could the Catholic community yet compel the current crop of Catholics in the public square – Abbott, Joe Hockey, Christopher Pyne, Kevin Andrews, Malcolm Turnbull, Barnaby Joyce, Andrew Robb, Mathias Cormann and others — to seek perfection in public policy?

We can pray.
Ken Borough is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 04:37
  #10706 (permalink)  
 
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No worries

I have to come up again mid year for work so will PM if and when I know the dates and we can catch up then or next December if earlier doesn't work out.
500N is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 04:42
  #10707 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Here was a politician talking about the importance of seeking the true, the good and the beautiful! About seeking perfection in public policy. About valuing the advice of elders. That is true Catholicism at work.’
Who? Paul Keating - shakes head and wanders off muttering
owen meaney is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 04:44
  #10708 (permalink)  
 
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"This has outraged conservative Catholic commentators.

One claims:

‘He has become a public scandal to such a point that nothing short of public condemnation by the Bishops or other prominent Catholics will do. His errors have sown confusion and on his current trajectory he will inflict much more damage in the Prime Ministerial years ahead.’
Truthfulness"

Coming from a faith that has itself become nothing short of public laughing stock due to George Pell and of course the scandal of the last 40 - 50 years of child abuse (and just for the record it wasn't the only faith, religion or "order" that was involved).

I don't see how they can take the high ground.
500N is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 05:02
  #10709 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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500N Sounds like a plan

PS Isn't that 1400-1500 years of child abuse?

memo to "Catholic commentators" - Australia is a secular state and not everyone shares your views.

Ken
Can you really attribute to "religious belief" the accolade of "rational"?
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 05:58
  #10710 (permalink)  
 
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I don't see how they can take the high ground.
Yes, they can. So it's OK to cast aspersions on the many because of the sins of a few? Most Catholics, like most other members of our society, are distressed beyond belief at the recent disclosures. I am, aren't you? The fact that some of the flock have sinned beyond belief does not preclude others in the Church from taking strong positions on other matters.

I didn't post the article to stir up discord or division but rather to show that there are many in the world who have good reason to be disappointed with TA and his team. Let's leave it at that!
Ken Borough is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 06:17
  #10711 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
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Disappointed in TA?

One one hand, yes.

But, given that I had no great expectation of him to start with, I'm not as disappointed as I expected to be.
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 06:33
  #10712 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Ah well. If the Kafflicks are now chipping about the Prime Minister it presumably takes the wind out of the sails of the lefty (and some on here) chants about him being a religious nutter.


Can't have it both ways fellers.
Airey Belvoir is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 07:42
  #10713 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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And now for the weather...




"...when the Australian Government Bureau of Meteorology (BOM) reports a “record” temperature, they mean “since 1910 in BOM’s adjusted records”. They ignore all records earlier than 1910 on the excuse such records were not taken in the shade according to their method.

Secondly, they have “adjusted” their raw data for various reasons, and the adjustments have generally “cooled the past” thus increasing the apparent warming trend, and increasing the chances that a recent heat wave will produce “highest ever temperatures”...

... heatwaves are nothing new .. For example:

In 1895 at Bourke there were 66 deaths from heat apoplexy over a period of six weeks, during which time the heat was never under 114 degrees shade heat and, what was worse, never under 100 degrees at night. The maximum temperature recorded under true shade conditions was 128 DegF (53.3 DegC). In Sydney in Jan 1896 the temperature reached 131 DegF in the shade (55 DegC). Publications at the times recorded many earlier heat waves back to 1791..."


The Carbon Sense Coalition » Heatwaves are Nothing New


Now back to the days politics...















.
Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 08:10
  #10714 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 39
"Could the Catholic community yet compel the current crop of Catholics in the public square – Abbott, Joe Hockey, Christopher Pyne, Kevin Andrews, Malcolm Turnbull, Barnaby Joyce, Andrew Robb, Mathias Cormann and others — to seek perfection in public policy?"



As much chance of that as the previous bunch that were duly kicked into touch last September!

"Perfection in Public Policy" WTF is that!?!?

If by having us all reduced terms / conditions / pay to a bowl of rice a day, but continuing the vote buying via welfare, yeah well...maybe

I see our old mate Leigh Clifford poured 15k of his 'hard earned' to the cause

That'll pay for a few Newly-wed sessions!
Fliegenmong is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 08:19
  #10715 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Posts: 84
Ken ........... "Eureka Street", a Leftist magazine sponsored by the Jesuits !


Neither should be quoted as an un biased account of anything in particular,more especially so after the recent history of the Australian Labour "Government" and the R.C. handling of child abuse issues.
With all due respect, Ken, you have to do better than quote publications with miniscule readerships whose writers and editorial staff are now so righteous about Abbotts supposed lack of Christian empathy but who worshipped at the feet of Ms. Gillard who was an acknowledged Marxist.
bosnich71 is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 09:18
  #10716 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Aw, c'mon.....leave Ken alone. He's really one of us


That said, and this will surprise you and others, I've never voted in favour of the left, the ALP, Greens, Democrats, or any other party that's left of centre
I don't care that people say that it's the oldest trick in the book to profess you hold the views of your opposing factions dear. Ken's doing the right thing by never reading anything with even a hint of right-wing bias and doing his patriotic duty by reading everything from the left so that he can let us into their secrets.





Fortunately he's able to string words and ideas together in a much, much more cogent way than "the other one on here"
Airey Belvoir is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 10:05
  #10717 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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"the other one on here" ????... Moi Maybe

Hmm, playing man rather than ball??

Did my time, learnt my lesson AB/BH etc. ...
Fliegenmong is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 10:07
  #10718 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Posts: 4,244
Sorry Ken, No I won't leave it at that.

Yes, they can have strong positions on other matters, not a problem but to say "nothing short of public condemnation by the Bishops or other prominent Catholics will do" is a joke.

Those same "prominent Catholics" like George Pell and others who shifted
troublesome priests around, ignored or deflected criticism and "public condemnation" of the actions taken by them in the past.

(The above also applies to all those other "groups" in the same boat
lest I get accused of just RC bashing).

"there are many in the world who have good reason to be disappointed with TA and his team." Same as many many disappointed with KR and JG.

It's only the lefties who were wollowing in welfare and the welfare state for the last 6 years and are gradually having the temples torn down by TA, Bishop and Hockey today who are disappointed.

Everyone is enjoying the lack of "24 hr non stop Kevin", non stop Asylum seeker boat arrivals and the general calm that seems to have settled on things.
500N is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 10:12
  #10719 (permalink)  
 
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Fliegs,

"the other one on here"

"YOU! YES, YOU ! Stand still laddy!"

(If you know where that came from, kudos )


No, I thought he was talking about "awblain" but might be crossing over too much from the Detroit thread !
500N is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2014, 10:15
  #10720 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
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I'm disappointed that absolutely nothing seems to have come of this.

https://www.liberal.org.au/latest-ne...-plan-aviation
Clare Prop is offline  

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