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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 20th Jul 2013, 20:45
  #6921 (permalink)  
 
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Fleigs
Where has the carbon tax gone?


Dunno Cooda........but I am still trying to figure out where it hurt me??? I didn't see it on a pay slip....I didn't see it anywhere

Do you suspect the 'aspirational' change will be prevented from going through parliament?? By who?

Last edited by Fliegenmong; 20th Jul 2013 at 20:48.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 20:52
  #6922 (permalink)  
 
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I see well known ex refugees, 4 of them commenting on the new immigration policy.

One mentions these people wanting to be refugees because they are being shot at in their home countries ??? I didn't know Iran was at war.

Mr Football, ex Hungary comparing today to Hungary in 1957.

The list goes on.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 20:59
  #6923 (permalink)  
 
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Les??? From Soccer Bloody Soccer??
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 21:01
  #6924 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, that one. He was born in a refugee camp.

Big diff in my opinion between his parents reasons for leaving
and the current crop.

I don't even consider Iraq or Afghanistan or Sri Lanka to be worthy
of refugee status but's that my HO.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 21:47
  #6925 (permalink)  
 
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It just struck me too, that PNG must have a wonderfully functional self funded welfare system.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 22:03
  #6926 (permalink)  
 
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Don't worry mate, it's only a short tinny ride across the Strait to welfare Nirvana. I foresee a boom in small boat manufacturing in PNG.
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Old 20th Jul 2013, 22:52
  #6927 (permalink)  
 
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Fliegs
It's not in your payslip but its in your outgoings and the loss of jobs around the country.

The suggestion is the greens won't support the change because it makes carbon too cheap and the libs will block it because they're the libs.

Rudd's secret recipe is to present grand ideas as fait accompli while fudging over the detail. Then he rushes on to something new while it all turns to shit behind him.

The real saving grace for labor in bringing him back is that it cleared a lot of dysfunctionality from Cabinet and let them replace the proven spivs with some possible substance (Emily's listers excepted).
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 03:09
  #6928 (permalink)  
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but I am still trying to figure out where it hurt me??? I didn't see it on a
pay slip....I didn't see it anywhere
Not had to pay an electricity bill recently Fliegs?
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 03:27
  #6929 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parabellum View Post
Not had to pay an electricity bill recently Fliegs?
Separate discussion altogether... carbon tax has little to do with it though it makes for a convenient scapegoat for the fat cats in charge of the power companies
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 03:28
  #6930 (permalink)  
 
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Afghan asylum seekers in Indonesia say they will not travel to Australia after PNG deal - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 03:48
  #6931 (permalink)  

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Recent company closures, possibly not reported on the ALPBC so you may not have seen it, may have some cause to blame the Carbon Tax...oh wait, no...it's these "fat cats" causing all the mayhem. Sorry, forgive me.

Well, I guess the only solution is a fully Socialist state where there's no fat cats...unless you're a card carrying ALP member of course. Is this what you're after Chuboy (I can wait for you to come back from Whirlpool if you like). This would show all those nasty capitalists who dare to be entrepreneurs & try to think beyond 4 year terms. We can all enjoy the wonderful benefits that our benevolent Leade, "The Rudd", will bestow upon us. Glory be to the Rudd!

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Old 21st Jul 2013, 03:58
  #6932 (permalink)  
 
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How ironic then, that capitalism is what has caused privatisation of monopoly essential infrastructure in this country to fail so miserably.

Unless you are aware of people who are happy paying more for electricity to line the pockets of a wealthy few? Perhaps that is fine by you?

P.S. Thank you for that amusing picture but I am not a socialist just because I think our pipes, ports and wires should be owned by the Commonwealth...
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 04:13
  #6933 (permalink)  
 
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chuboy

They had a person on 774 saying the same thing.

If they can't get to Australia they won't travel.

Why oh why has it taken so long and so many deaths for someone in Gov't to actually put something hard nose in and not worry abut what it looks like.
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 04:19
  #6934 (permalink)  
 
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Here's to TA supporting eh 500??

Right I'm back outside, gorgeous day here today, just back from the mountains and a picnic lunch with Mrs Fliegs, back to bask in the wonderful winter sun
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 07:00
  #6935 (permalink)  

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Capitalism caused it? Wow, they have so much influence! And here I was thinking democratically elected Governments, standing with a privatisation platform actually made those decisions.

Lets not forget that State run infrastructure was abysmal prior to privatisation. A state of affairs that brought about privatisation in the first place. Of course, if you're happy to pay ever increasing taxes to service the State debt and line the pockets of lending institutions.... Perhaps that's fine by you?


Anyway, it's useless debating this point for two reasons... (a) I use a different type of tin foil to you and (b) I actually agree with you.


I think certain infrastructure should remain state controlled, and I can only consider Victoria in my reasoning. I think Kennetts hand was forced by the crippling, inherited debt of the previous Labor administration, the unwillingness of Unions to drag themselves out of the 70's, and yes, vested interests encouraging the reforms. Where I would concede it mostly went wrong was in the parameters that were set for the privatisation. Oh, and where this problem stems from is the Public Service... I know, I still see the ineptitude every day.
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 08:14
  #6936 (permalink)  
 
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Capitalism has certainly been the enemy of the union movement.
All of those tradies who took the chance to become self employed rather than continue as card carrying pawns in the battle between management and the unions. Certainly cut into membership numbers.

I also agree that certain essential services need to remain in state control but run as a business, not a bureaucracy.

It also seems that it's been the state governments, of both persuasions, that have dropped the ball on infrastructure development and privatisations.

Creates a few problems for potential voters when you can't agree with either of the major parties.

For the third election running, it's a case of considering who is likely to do the least amount of damage over the next three years.

Last edited by CoodaShooda; 21st Jul 2013 at 08:15.
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 08:24
  #6937 (permalink)  
 
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Buster, agree on both counts.
We're getting the Privatisation spin up here with full force. IMO the reason governments like it is that it absolves responsibility; when the prices go up and the quality of service goes down they can skive off into the shadows and say 'blame XYZ utilities, it's all their fault.'

Of course XYZ Utilities buys said infrastructure with the purpose of making lots of money. That becomes a problem when it's a type of infrastructure that doesn't actually make money, because they have to gouge maintenance and services to keep it profitable. Prisons are a prime example, as is power. The private toll road concept has turned into a debacle; they've fallen like dominoes and plenty of people have lost a lot of money.

I'm a bit of a leftie , but IMO I pay taxes to the government so they provide power, roads, prisons and the like. If they're not going to provide those things and I'm going to get ripped off by a bunch of multi-nationals and 'shareholders', WTF am I paying taxes again? What exactly does the government do? It's not like taxes go down every time they sell off an asset.

There is a lot of dead wood in the public service. I know, I've been there. However, I don't see why governments can't run stuff efficiently. Having seen the Qld LNP government sell off enterprises that actually made money (such as Q Fleet) I get very sceptical about the privatisation mantra. How about governments take some responsibility and get more efficient?

Actually credit where credit is (begrudgingly ) due, the Qld government has been doing a bit of that. I haven't always agreed with their methods, but the truth of the matter is that they've gotten rid of some very useless people and processes. Some good people too, but I guess that's the way of it. If they stuck with that and moved away from the lazy privatisation threats I'd be a lot more supportive.
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 08:28
  #6938 (permalink)  
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Unless you are aware of people who are happy paying more for electricity to line the pockets of a wealthy few?
Yep. There's a whole bunch of them in WA and they're probably in the other States as well.

Who?

The people who willingly fork out more to get "green" electricity! Mostly greenies but there are some other gullible folk out there as well. They also swell the profits of airlines such as Qantas by ticking the box which says that they are more than willing to fork out more money to "offset" the "carbon" that their particular flight is going to put into the atmosphere.

And we get worked up about Nigerian scams.
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 08:47
  #6939 (permalink)  
 
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All of those tradies who took the chance to become self employed rather than continue as card carrying pawns in the battle between management and the unions. Certainly cut into membership numbers.
IMO this is something many unions failed to get their heads around. If they'd appealed to those members as members of an association (similar to the various law societies and medical associations) they would have retained members and influence. Some unions have done this and have benefited from it. Others missed the boat.

Sisemen, as a Nat (tell me if I'm wrong ), what are your views on privatisation? From talking to people here, a dislike of privatisation is something both many Nat and Labor supporters have in common.

P.S. agree re 'green' power. I laughed my arse off when I saw Virgin were offering this; they sure are good at separating the buck from the consumer Put it this way; any major airport has underground supplied fuel. There aren't two separate pipelines for green and brown fuel.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 21st Jul 2013 at 08:50.
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Old 21st Jul 2013, 08:50
  #6940 (permalink)  
 
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Sisemen

Don't get me started on the Green energy.

Everywhere I go in the country is screwed by big eyesore Wind Turbines.

Once beautiful hills now ruined.
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