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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 15th Jul 2013, 03:37
  #6781 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile Malcolm Turnbull makes a tacit acknowledgement of his popularity as preferred leader of the LNP, but insists there will be no leadership challenge. Nevertheless, if I were were a Liberal MP I would certainly be feeling restless. You can't ignore the reversal in the polls - TA was not well-liked before Rudd II, he was just less unpopular than JG.

Last edited by chuboy; 15th Jul 2013 at 03:37.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 04:13
  #6782 (permalink)  
 
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I'd love to be proven wrong, but if the Libs blink (as Labor are hoping they will) and replace Abbott with Turnbull, I can't help but feel we'll see a repeat of the Malcolm Fraser disaster, where none of the damage done by six years hard Labor will get undone.

For one, I can't see Turnbull having the cojones to do something that will work to put a stop to what's become a scheduled daily service of boat arrivals. I have to say, I'm not sure Abbott has either, but I feel he's far more likely to at least try than Turnbull.

I also think there would be many conservatives out there who would be horribly disappointed to find Turnbull as leader again after seeing the way he allowed Labor to run rings around him the first time he was Leader of the Opposition. The reason Labor are so keen to see the end of Abbott is that they see him as a real threat to their 'reforms'. Turnbull is not - he seems to agree with many of them.

However, having had my children visit over the weekend, I have to admit that they (and, it would seem, many of their generation) want Turnbull as leader - although neither of them could tell me why.

Edited to add: if the Libs are going to roll Abbott, I for one would rather see them put Julie Bishop up to run the show. She might make a few missteps along the way, but how sweet it would be to see those who accused the Libs of misogyny choke on their words as a capable woman did the job.

Last edited by MTOW; 15th Jul 2013 at 04:18.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 04:28
  #6783 (permalink)  
 
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Did anyone read the Andrew Bolt blog in the Herald Sun today ?

Talk about a swipe at the Softy, feel good lefties !
The lefties are all about soft, life et al, Andrew makes a very good point
in his blog. I have bolded the relevant text.


Deadly toll of "feel good" politics

THE politicians in charge of our borders and immigration laws have betrayed their country.

They have left us poorer, more divided and less safe.
And more cruel.

See the drowned baby boy fished from the sea on Saturday.
Count the eight boat people drowned with him.

Nothing better symbolises this shambles than the media conference later given by Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare.

Clare was questioned on two topics: this deadly sinking of yet another boat of "asylum seekers" and the murder in western Sydney on Friday of a Muslim man in yet another apparent bikie shooting.

Those two are related - the dead in the sea, dead in our streets.

Both are symptoms of a moral failure of so many modern politicians - preferring to seem good than actually to achieve it.

And in no field has this posturing proved so deadly as it has in deciding and enforcing who comes here.

The results? More than 1000 boat people lured to their deaths at sea since Prime Minister Kevin Rudd scrapped tough border laws in 2008 to seem compassionate. Then there's the more than 100 people a day now arriving by boat with no papers, and the billions of dollars a year it costs us to deal with them.

Add also dozens of shootings in Sydney, many thanks to ethnic-based gangs - a product of our failure to properly discriminate when admitting newcomers.

Oh, and there's that wider problem of allowing in so many immigrants that our bursting cities struggle to house, transport and water them all.

Noticed our roads can't cope with the added traffic?

Blog with Andrew Bolt

How can an immigration program producing these results be in our national interest? How could politicians have got it so wrong?

The boat-people disaster provides one clue.

In 2008, Rudd scrapped the "cruel" Howard government laws that had cut boat arrivals to an average of just three a year.
With no boat people drowning and just four left in detention, this was a change that helped no one.
It was made simply so Rudd and the urban elite backing him could advertise their goodness, but it brought only evil.

The boats came back, and tens of thousands of boat people are now locked up or living off charity.

An Immigration Department survey says most refugees - including more than 90 per cent of Afghans - are still on welfare even after five years.

But all this is not merely a Rudd failure.

For years, politicians have been too scared of seeming "racist" or mean in determining who we let in, and how many.

It was always obvious that unskilled immigrants with little English, a tribal and rural background and, in some cases, a militantly different faith would battle to fit in.

Yet the Fraser government relaxed immigration standards to accept more such people fleeing the Lebanese civil war.

Subsequent governments were almost as careless and Sydney's bikie war is part of the price we now pay.

Yes, most immigrants - the Lebanese included - do their best to fit in, and most succeed.

Yes, the Australian-born can also be feral.

But some proud young men would naturally prefer to be a feared tough of an ethnic gang or a warrior of their faith instead of just another poor Australian, struggling for work and respect.

And so Sydney's Hells Angels include many ethnic Turks - like the bikie shot dead last Monday.

The Comancheros they battle include many Lebanese and Pacific Islanders. Another bikie gang, Notorious, also has many Lebanese members.

MEANWHILE, ASIO warns that hundreds of Australians of Lebanese background are fighting with radical Islamist groups in Syria, and pose a danger when they return.

Already Shiite and Sunni Muslims report the Syria war has spilled into our streets, with bashings, shootings, threats and arson among the nearly 20 incidents recorded in Sydney and Melbourne.

Hate-preachers have stoked the tensions.

Again we must ask: how were such people let in?

How? Well, check the story of Sheik Taj el-Din al-Hilaly, the Egyptian cleric who overstayed his visa and was caught preaching that evil Jews used "sex and abominable acts of buggery, espionage, treason and economic hoarding to control the world".

When Labor's immigration minister tried to expel Hilaly in 1986 for "incitement to hatred", Labor machine men such as Paul Keating, keen for Muslim votes, overruled him.

All this was dressed up in the feel-good rhetoric of multiculturalism, leaving Hilaly free at Sydney's Lakemba mosque to praise suicide bombers as "heroes" and the September 11 terrorist attacks as "God's work against oppressors".

Melbourne also pays for an immigration program apparently designed by politicians too scared of seeming racist to be prudent.

Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus praises his multi-ethnic voters in greater Dandenong as "an example to others of a modern, diverse and harmonious society", but crime rates are actually 40 per cent above the state average, with Sudanese and Pacific Islanders overrepresented.

Doctors and police in Melbourne warn that marginalised Afghan boat people are also turning to crime and gangs.

"There are specific neighbourhoods where tension has escalated to violence," South Eastern Melbourne Medicare Local says.

This is no immigration policy. It is a public menace.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 04:40
  #6784 (permalink)  
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I for one would rather see them put Julie Bishop up to run the show.
It would be rather entertaining to watch the handbag hit squad facing a female Liberal Prime Minister with Kevni - the (spit!) M..M.. MALE who knifed their female leader - as their leader on the Opposition benches. (Although I have to say, it would be even more entertaining to see every member of the handbag hit squad lose her seat in the coming election.)

Not that they'd turn a hair or even blink before launching into whatever the chosen avenue of attack the 'pardy' had chosen for that day was. I was more than a little amused this morning to hear Penny Wong on AM talking up the advantages of an ETS over a Carbon Tax.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 04:44
  #6785 (permalink)  
 
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So 1000 people have died trying to make the crossing
and all because they wanted to look good and have a
softly softly approach !

Re AS, did anyone read the media storm generated over this last boat
where the baby and 8 others died ?

The Gov't agencies are copping flak for taking too long to respond.

What made me laugh was the INITIAL call for help came from
a person in Melbourne ! And then the later calls were from people
in the boat to the Federal Police !

I think it's about time some telephone numbers were changed
and only calls from within Australia are taken and not those
50kms from the Indonesian coast.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 04:46
  #6786 (permalink)  
 
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Julie Bishop would probably make a good go of it if she had
some good people behind her, especially a good Deputy,
Treasurer and Immigration person.

Then if they all worked as a team, put on a united front
and presented well and not focus on just the negatives,
IMHO, it would come across well.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 09:24
  #6787 (permalink)  
 
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I also think there would be many conservatives out there who would be horribly disappointed to find Turnbull as leader again after seeing the way he allowed Labor to run rings around him the first time he was Leader of the Opposition. The reason Labor are so keen to see the end of Abbott is that they see him as a real threat to their 'reforms'. Turnbull is not - he seems to agree with many of them.
Agreed. From what I hear from Tory friends I think Turnbull is a bit like Beazley; popular with people who don't actually vote for the party concerned. Of course that can win elections if the swinging voters buy it, but it doesn't keep the party faithful happy. Rudd crucified him last time around; why would the Libs pick a proven loser?

Bishop would be interesting. She's a good pollie and unlike Turnbull (who always makes you wonder if he joined the correct party ) she's 100% Lib.
Then again, maybe that wouldn't work, because buying a house would be a totally foreign concept to most people who think Kevin Rudd is "great".
Whatever . Maybe the Libs should be asking themselves why such an obvious show-pony has so quickly turned around Labor's popularity, and not just with dole bludging ferals, who largely never stopped supporting Labor in the first place. Maybe the Coalition message is lacking something; for instance a gram of positivity and answers to the inevitable 'what's in it for me' question every swinging voter asks themselves in the booth.

At the moment, all I hear from the Libs is carping and mutterings from their business council /magnate partners-in-crime about how I should be grateful for South East Asian wages and conditions, while they create yet more shareholder value for their superannuation company mates (sorry, 'Mum and Dad investors' ) and pay CEOs even more millions. Let's look at the banks, who make more money than Croesus ever dreamed of, but apparently still can't 'afford' to employ Australian call centre workers. With friends like these the Coalition has more than Rudd to worry about if they want to convince the average working Australian that they can be trusted with IR. If they stuck with the small business message they'd do well (as Howard did for three terms) but these days their posh friends are costing them a lot of community credibility.

Having bought a dwelling (not from Kev ) I've got a keen interest in being able to meet the mortgage repayments without juggling three casual jobs and living on lentils. My dwelling cost a hell of a lot more than the Indian equivalent, as do my groceries and tax. This is something the Gina brigade don't care to acknowledge.

Personally I think a lot of people naturally want to vote Labor but didn't feel they could under Gillard and Co. Now they've bounced back and the polls are sitting at about 50-50. Federal elections are usually close, so that's how it should be. The Libs need to stop whining about how unfair it all is and start coming up with some policies.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 15th Jul 2013 at 09:46.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 10:43
  #6788 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting choice Julie bishop, can anyone repeat anything positive or constructive policy that has come out of her mouth, her comments during the Oz passports stolen by Israel debacle were very professional.
I think Abbott should get a 21st century campaign team, Mr Robb does not cut it anymore.
Just watched Julie bishops performance in Q and A, she is not even deputy opposition material.

Last edited by heated ice detector; 15th Jul 2013 at 14:01.
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 23:28
  #6789 (permalink)  

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And the true believers say Abbott puts his foot in his mouth!

No Cookies | Herald Sun

"Good on him, he is a survivor, but is he a contributor?'' Mr Tongs said.
"That wasn't the right thing for him to say, but politicians always want to say something to bring prominence upon themselves.
"It was a stupid thing to say, he wasn't there. Instead of saying stupid things he should spend more money on health and education for our friends in PNG.''
When told that Mr Rudd had survived Kokoda he said, "He was lucky wasn't he.''
Mr Griffiths described the PM's comment as "disrespectful'' and "a bit dicey''.
"It sounds a bit ordinary to me. Typical Rudd bravado I reckon.''
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Old 15th Jul 2013, 23:58
  #6790 (permalink)  
 
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The Libs can't have it both ways. They accuse Labor of limp lettuce policies towards Indonesia in the way they kotow to them in every way - and then accuse Bob Carr of coming the heavy on the Indonesian Foreign Minister in having him change his message on turning back the boats.

...although, having seen what the Indon FM said earlier in the day and seeing how Carr took him out to dinner and then trotted him out in front of all the late night current affairs programs immediately afterwards with a totally different message, it's hard to come to any other conclusion other than to wonder what was said and what pressure was applied at that dinner.
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 02:46
  #6791 (permalink)  
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Just watched Julie bishops performance in Q and A, she is not even deputy
opposition material.
Just shows how people get different perceptions of the same person. I thought Bishop came over very well, got plenty of appreciation from a 'leftist' audience and above all put that very mouthy Green back in his box several times. Just as Enoch Powell tied David Frost up in knots when Frost mis-quoted him, Bishop knew exactly what she had said, where she said it and the context in which it was said, much to the discomfort of Jones, the QM.
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 02:46
  #6792 (permalink)  
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ALPBC reporting a 300% increase in Vietnamese asylum seekers arriving in Australia over the last 12 months. Lots of serious discussion of the suddenly increased "push factors" of "suddenly increased" oppression of minority groups and dissidents in Vietnam, but everyone studiously avoiding the obvious.

What would you do? You're an Australian of Vietnamese descent with rellies still in Vietnam, relatives who may not qualify to come here under the normal immigration rules. (Or who may, but hey, why go through the expense, delay and then lose out on the handouts for life by coming the normal way when it's open slather for those coming by the back door?)

As I said, what would you do? You're watching half the Middle East being given free rein to come in without restriction, so what's the bet that more than a few Australians of Vietnamese descent haven't been on the phone to the rellies back home to tell them to get their bums on a boat and get themselves down ("Come on down!") here before the gravy train comes to a grinding halt if Rudd loses the election?

Oh, and to have a good story of "suddenly increased" oppression ready.
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 03:23
  #6793 (permalink)  
 
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...although, having seen what the Indon FM said earlier in the day and seeing how Carr took him out to dinner and then trotted him out in front of all the late night current affairs programs immediately afterwards with a totally different message, it's hard to come to any other conclusion other than to wonder what was said and what pressure was applied at that dinner.
How about $50-100M or so in the form of a of grant or assistance - that's the normal way the ALP buy compliance.
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 03:47
  #6794 (permalink)  
 
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I have to admit, the same thought occurred to me, ovation. When dealing with the Indonesians, "coming the heavy" for this government means "coming with a heavy amount of money".
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 03:52
  #6795 (permalink)  
 
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I see the media is now trying to organise a Turnbull coup.


Re AS / Indonesia. Great piece on 774 this morning about trying to
rope in domestic Indo Politics into Australia politics. I wanted to
call and point out how the "softly softly" approach meant that
1000 people had died but they moved onto another subject.

We just gave them how many C-130's and Patrol boats ?????
Bloody crazy considering they won't use them for patrolling
and stopping AS.

Last edited by 500N; 16th Jul 2013 at 03:53.
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 10:02
  #6796 (permalink)  
 
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via MTOW #6811:
...However, having had my children visit over the weekend, I have to admit that they (and, it would seem, many of their generation) want Turnbull as leader - although neither of them could tell me why...
Our ABC is good at telling new voters what to think. There is no substance to the ABC 'think', so there is no "why"..


via Worrals in the wilds #6816:
...Turnbull is a bit like Beazley; popular with people who don't actually vote for the party concerned. Of course that can win elections if the swinging voters buy it, but it doesn't keep the party faithful happy. Rudd crucified him last time around; why would the Libs pick a proven loser...
There are some very large investments that have been made in the global warming scam and 'carbon' trading. Have a close look at banker boy Turnbull's Lib 'backers' and look for connections..

And the banker boy supporters in our ABC and the greens.... the term useful idiots comes to mind..



Here's sumthin i fergot to put up when we was on global warming pusher Arnold Schwarzenegger:

Google search "Enron, Arnold Schwarzenegger"

Oh and yer might wanta look at what enron has got to do with global warming and the emissions trading scam (ETS)...

Google search "Enron, carbon trading"









.

Last edited by Flying Binghi; 16th Jul 2013 at 10:30.
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 10:24
  #6797 (permalink)  
 
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"And the banker boy supporters in our ABC and the greens.... the term useful idiots comes to mind.."

I have never heard Greenies called "useful" before
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 10:41
  #6798 (permalink)  
 
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...but I have heard them called 'idiots'!
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 10:54
  #6799 (permalink)  
 
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Turnbull has always struck me as a merchant banker (aka: "making money comes first and foremost") first and a politician second. If the Libs swallow the Labor bait and put him up as leader, there will be, IMHO, no conservative candidate on offer to what I'll dub myself as true Australian conservatives.

If the Libs go into the next election under Turnbull's leadership, I'll do something I've never done before - I'll vote informal. I don't think I'll be alone, but, if the polls and the MSM are to believed, people such as me will be far outnumbered by younger voters who may then vote for the Libs, so, translated, I think I should also label myself an Old Fart.
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Old 16th Jul 2013, 12:05
  #6800 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure how Libs would swallow Labor 'bait' by elevating Turnbull....I mean it's hardly a bait is it? (A little conspiracy theory...maybe?)

But even if it were no doubt the 'faceless men' in the Liberal Pardee would be too smart to fall for it!

Interesting to see something about Rudds Son posted to some position or other the other day, and the complaints about it, the nepotism is rife up here in QLD in Campbell Newmans QLD LNP, he is no doubt damaging Abbott's LNP brand up here....

Anna Bligh was a disgrace, and was rightly kicked fair out of the state., but I didn't realise she had some kind of pay freeze in place for the pollies......the legalities of which escape me now, but they were examined in minute detail by the LNP legal team, who managed to find that a state politician pay freeze was illegal, and that this pay increase was in the order of an EXTRA $57,000.00 per year!

What I loved about the degree of disconnect from the acting Premier (Actual Premier off on Overseas Hols.) Acting Premier had the gall to stand in front of the people of this state and say....ready for this....

'We're legally obliged to take this pay increase......and have it back dated' .......

No Labor baits in that kind of electoral disconnect ....let's not forget that Dep. Premier also believes the QLD Gummint jet should be used to ferry him home personally rather than fly commercially to a nearby town, or to utilise his provided (and paid for regardless) accommodation in Brisbane....who does he think he is Kim Il howard??? He'll be taking the thing to Broome for a holiday next!!
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