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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 11th Jul 2013, 04:57
  #6721 (permalink)  
 
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I can tell you for certain that the offenders were from a culture that has little respect for anyone in uniform and one, who via our generous welfare system, had an overblown sense of self entitlement . Ambulance in Victoria is free to pensioners, low income earners and refugees. The mother of the aggressors had a laceration to her elbow , not her head as reported, was ambulant and perfectly capable of being driven to a nearby hospital by the same thugs who managed to pile out of a vehicle and threaten the paramedics concerned.
Yeah, fair enough. Thanks for the info. I've long thought ambos should be armed with non-lethal weapons (tasers and cap spray) which would dissuade vicious speed freaks and the above sorts of ferals treating paramedics like punching bags. I know a lot of paramedics don't agree with being armed and of course it's their choice not mine, but IMO it's better to be able to fight back on superior terms if required.

IIRC One of the reasons Queensland went to a 'free' ambulance service for all (acutally paid for via electricity bills, Beattie introduced it) was because ambos were copping a lot of aggro from feral people who didn't deserve an emergency response service. There was also a lot of argy-bargy about what constituted an emergency. They weren't from That Group, either; the locals are quite capable of acting like chimpanzees as anyone who spends time in a night club precinct is well aware of.

We actually don't have many of Them in SEQ, which I admit may give me a rosy view about immigrants. Most of our ME Queenslanders are Iranians and Afghans, who don't seem to have the same level of aggro and sense of entitlement. Also, the coppers never gave them the leeway that ME immigrants got in Sydney and Melbourne.
The fat lady Police Commissioner didn't help at all because she empowered them IMHO.
If a criminal group (whether ethnic or otherwise) gets the idea that they're above the law they'll start behaving badly. I'm not calling every member of that ethnic group a crim because they aren't, any more than every guy with a Harley and a beard is an OMCG member. However, there are distinct criminal groups within Sydney and Melbourne from that enthnic group, and by hamstringing their police services in the name of PC (and voters in key seats ) both state governments allowed them to flourish throughout the 1990s-2000s. If the Vietnamese crims, the Triads and the Mafia had been given the same immunity they would have also become a problem. They weren't (by and large) and criminals from those groups were targeted by law enforcment without fear or favour.

They've created a massive rod for their own backs, because they're now stuck with a generation of young crims who think they're seven foot tall and bullet proof. Of course people who think they're bullet proof can be quickly dissillusioned, but it requires a certain amount of lawless law enforcement (1970s style) that's very politically unfashionable at the moment .
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 05:07
  #6722 (permalink)  
 
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A good example was the Carlton Mafia. OK, they were killing each other
every so often and even though the police investigated no one was too
concerned UNTIL they did one in broad daylight at a Sunday kids soccer
match.

Then all hell broke lose and they felt the full force of the law.

Even Broady (Broadmeadows, Northern suburb of Melbourne)
at it's worst in the 70's and 80's (and maybe 90's) was ruled
hard and fast by the coppers, don't take shyte and even though
you had a bad lot in there, they were kept under control.

Even the Vietnamese, Chinese, etc know don't take on the cops
as it just attracts heat they don't like. The current ethnic mob
we are talking about couldn't give a shyte.

Re "lawless" law enforcement, sometimes a clip across the ear
or a smack or two pulled on hell of a lot of roudy kids into
line in the past, now they know the cops can't legally touch
them.

As you say, just look at the nightclub district / Kings Way
- or wherever it is nowadays !!!

Last edited by 500N; 11th Jul 2013 at 05:09.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 06:25
  #6723 (permalink)  
 
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It saddens me to say it, but he could pull this off.
While Rudd might be having a wonderful honeymoon and the MSM are fawning over him, the inescapable fact is there are too many seats that will go against the ALP on 14/09 or whatever the date might be. The seats held by Oakshott and Windsor will almost certainly change to LNP, as should the seat held by the brothel frequenting Craig Thomson. There's enough to change government alone.

Add to this those marginal seats where the sitting member has retired and the advantage of incumbency has been lost - there would have to be 2-3 seats there. Then, there are a couple of extremely marginal seats that will fall to the LNP with just a slight swing, so I sincerely doubt the ALP will be the next government.

Which brings me to the point I want to make.

The change to Rudd has absolutely nothing to do with the Lower House - they know they're finished so it's all about control of the Senate. The electorate will vote more along party lines rather than on local electorate issues, and the ALP would have lost control of the Upper House had Gillard led them to a glorious electoral defeat.

With Rudd and his "presidential" persona they may just keep control and that's the one and only reason he's there. Once they get past the election, Rudd will be given the heave ho once again.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 06:33
  #6724 (permalink)  
 
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I must admit I keep forgetting we had a hung type Parliament.

As long as the Greens get kicked in the teeth and lose seats
and don't have any power left, I will be happy.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 08:19
  #6725 (permalink)  
 
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I think you're on the money, Ovation. However, I also believe he'll manage to rescue a number of Lower House seats that were total lost causes under JEG.

He seems to appeal to that 'Jack's as good as his master' gene in all too many Australians, an innate 'if a nerd like that could be PM, maybe I could if I put my mind to it'. (Very similar to that trait that any airline pilot would be familiar with when a least a dozen times in his/her life, he meets someone at a social occasion who tells him that HE would have been an airline pilot 'if things [too numerous to mention] had been different'.)

I watched most of the 61 minutes of his performance (the only word that comes to mind) today at the Press Club. He didn't say a bloody thing - but sounded OH SO GOOD saying it. And the MSM let him get away with it, laughing dutifully, (no, not dutifully, eagerly and very enthusiastically), at the repeated barbs directed at Tony Abbott.

What will be most interesting will be the "tell all" books, some undoubtedly already underway, from both the Rudd and Gillard camps, telling very, very different stories about what "really" happened in both topplings and behind the scenes in each regime.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 08:23
  #6726 (permalink)  
 
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Ovation, agree re sandbagging the Senate. I'm personally amazed at the way the polls have bounced back post-Rudd; much as I detest him as a pollie he certainly has public appeal. Or... maybe just more appeal than Gillard. I've heard many people say that they want to support Labor but didn't feel they could under Gillard.

I don't think the Coalition are particularly popular with traditional Labor voters, far from it. There are many reasons for this; some people dislike Abbott. Others (myself included) don't mind Abbott but detest the Libs' connections to Big Business and their obvious influence on IR policy.

Likewise the ALP are not popular with traditional Coalition voters, and for good reason. The mining tax, the imaginary class warfare drummed up by Swan and McTernan (an unelected, foreign advisor) et al and their failure to protect the borders have disgusted many people, and rightly so.

All I hope is that we don't end up with another stalemate government ruled by crazy and/or self interested independents. I'd rather see Abbott and Co win outright than three more years of that. If that happens and Labor retain the Senate then at least the lower house will be fettered. Recent history suggests that neither side do well when they have control of both houses; it's like giving a kid their very own McDonalds restaurant.

On a random note, RIP to a notable Queenslander and Brisbane legend. Eddie Liu's funeral was so well attended that they had to hold it at Brisbane City Hall. Even when I was young (not that long ago, thanks for asking ) it was unusual to see Chinese people in Brisbane. He never let that bother him.

With so much discussion about immigrants and their place in Australia, I think it's important to remember the many, many success stories. Liu was high profile, but many other foreign looking people with strange eating habits have come to Australia with nothing and succeeded, to the benefit of both themselves and the community. I think we need to remember that, and support the people who want to succeed, even if at first they don't seem obviously Australian.

Eddie Liu Funeral Marks Life Of 'Trailblazer'
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 09:35
  #6727 (permalink)  
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 09:41
  #6728 (permalink)  
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but many other foreign looking people with strange eating habits have come to Australia with nothing and succeeded, to the benefit of both themselves and the community.
That's because they kept and nurtured their cultural differences but joined in and accepted the culture and ethos of Australia with open arms. Unlike the mob whose religion cannot be mentioned (not all of 'em).
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 09:47
  #6729 (permalink)  
 
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Forgive me TWT, I just had to save that image. public appeel indeed.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 09:54
  #6730 (permalink)  
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Irresistible

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Old 11th Jul 2013, 10:46
  #6731 (permalink)  
 
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Unlike the mob whose religion cannot be mentioned (not all of 'em).
Correct. Separate the crims from the decent people, hunt down the crims and the problem goes away. The problem is not Muslims. The problem isn't even Lebs (there, someone's said it ). The problem is crims, and a law enforcement system that allegedly has not been able to deal with them due to political influence on the two relevant police services.

No pollie wants to say that, because whatever side of the house they skank around in, they're part of the problem. Either they pushed it or they allowed it. Either way, it was politically expedient at the time, otherwise it wouldn't have happened.

Imagine (G'day Caco ) that bikies were an identifiable ethnic group, rather than a bunch of dudes with beards and bikes. Imagine that certain members of the said bikies' ethnic group engaged in criminal activities like drug smuggling, illegal firearms trade and standover rackets (say it ain't so ).

Imagine then, that instead of police and government identifying key members of the OMCGs as the crims they are and committing to hunting them down and locking them up without unfairly targeting law abiding individuals with bikes, beards and tatts (of which there are many) the government/ police instead issued huggy fluff statements about rights and how we should be accepting and welcoming to all members of the community. Imagine then that when the community correctly gave them flak for letting criminals run riot, the government/police accused the community of being wasists who unfairly hate men with beards and motorcycles.

This is how ridiculous it is. Some members of an ethnic minority are crims. This does not make all members of that minority crims and nor should anyone think that way. However, those who are crims should be hunted down and dealt with, yeah? Like all crims? Why is this so hard??

Why? Becuase it got Political, and said ethnic minority is a bit shy when it comes to giving up the guilty . That's not a new thing but it shouldn't be encouraged. IMO it's about time they stand up and be counted.

As the Irish, the Italians, the Viets and the Romanian communities (among others) have learned the hard way, there comes a time when the immigrant group has to choose whether to hide the minority crims in the interest of ethnic solidarity, or support the greater majority in the interests of law enforcement. This is when the question arises; are you an Australian or not?

Of course, this is not purely an ethnic problem. Many person has wrestled with their concsience when it comes to a wayward relative. Do you call the coppers or let them be? How many people are they hurting with their drug habit and suspicious source of income? Crime is not the sole perogative of the Lebs. There are plenty of Anglo Saxon drug traffickers, rapists, thieves and standover men out there. They also have families and communities, and all to frequently those families and communities leave them to their activities without standing up and being counted. However, it's not as newsworthy. The papers can't make race mileage out of it.

Here's a story from the Good Ol' Days, back when Aussies were white, men were men and sheep were scared. The good ol' days before we had immigrants and women were safe. Yeah, right.

The Lebs didn't bring to Australia the concepts of gang rape or community fear/inaction. These things were here long before they arrived. Many witnesses saw these women in distress, and still left them to die. If you want to call the Leb community wussy go ahead (you'd be right) but remember it's not exclusive. The good people of Toowoomba were just as bad, and these two women were left just as dead.
'Putrid pool of miscreants' probably killed nurses: coroner | Toowoomba Chronicle

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/...r-20130628.pdf

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 11th Jul 2013 at 11:08.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 11:18
  #6732 (permalink)  
 
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Fixing the policing issue is easy. Stop the political appointments, boot out the statistics gathering morons, promote on ability, and you can't be the chief without some useful practical policing experience. Give the police the power and support to do the job properly. Get rid of the bullshit paperwork, (statistics gathering) and have that time spent doing proactive stuff. Stop this assignment of resources to the areas judged politically important, and put it back where it belongs - on the goddam street!

Finally, let the poor bastards do their job. They are too afraid to do anything that might get them into P.C. trouble these days. Enough of this whiny arse, don't pick on me I'm a minority P.C. garbage. If I catch you doing something you ain't supposed to be doing, you can bet your arse you'll see the inside of the court room. I don't give a flying F2ck whether you're a Leb, Wog, Spic, black, white, red, yellow, Asian, Euro, Yank ,gay, politician, rich or poor, or any other goddam religion, cult or creed. You'll all get the same treatment, no exceptions.

Mick Miller was the last real police commissioner in Victoria.

There. Fixed it. Or not.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 12:01
  #6733 (permalink)  
 
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I hope Christine Nixon doesn't see you post, porch monkey. The poor petal would come all over with the vapours at the very thought of such... such... (oh, she wouldn't be able to put such thoughts into words).

It'd be enough to send her running off to the hairdresser.

Or a meal.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 12:03
  #6734 (permalink)  
 
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"Mick Miller was the last real police commissioner in Victoria."

Isn't the current one from the same mold. Pulls no punches ?
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 12:33
  #6735 (permalink)  
 
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Ostensibly yes, 500. Having met the man I think he's the best choice there was. At least, I hope so, for the poor unfortunates still there..... The problem for him is all the other things I mentioned. And whether he'll be allowed to make much change. Make no mistake, his battles will be with the enemy within.

EDIT, sorry ANDU, not ignoring your comment, but Nanna can kiss my arse!!!!

Last edited by porch monkey; 11th Jul 2013 at 12:34.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 12:40
  #6736 (permalink)  
 
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He doesn't seem to have much problem tackling dead wood so far !

And not only taking on corruption but not hiding it either.
Both good signs IMHO.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 14:00
  #6737 (permalink)  

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The force were happy to see the back of Simon the Likeable too...
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 19:02
  #6738 (permalink)  
 
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It's quite amazing but I read an interview with Nixon recently.

Brushes off the whole Hairdresser / Dinner incident as though it was nothing.

Not sure I would like my whole career remembered because of that.

How she was ever appointed " chair of the Victorian Bushfire Reconstruction and Recovery Authority in February 2009" is mind boggling.

It was interesting that she stood down from the position in July 2010 !

Last edited by 500N; 11th Jul 2013 at 19:05.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 22:41
  #6739 (permalink)  
 
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Porch Monkey...



Then do the same in the border agencies and a bunch of other law enforcement problems will go away.

The problem is that practically the only people who get promoted these days are the grovellers and time wasters who spend every hour working on their career and big noting themselves, rather than actually doing the job.

Anyone who's actually good at law enforcement is seen by mananagement as a potential trouble-maker. Of course IMO the reason a lot of managers ended up in management in the first place is because they were really lousy officers, but that's another story.
Mick Miller was the last real police commissioner in Victoria.
We were incredibly lucky with Bob Atkinson. Also, for all their many, many faults, neither Premier Beattie nor Bligh pushed politics too much when it came to policing.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 11th Jul 2013 at 22:46.
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Old 11th Jul 2013, 22:49
  #6740 (permalink)  
 
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The problem is that practically the only people who get promoted these days are the grovellers and time wasters who spend every hour working on their career and big noting themselves, rather than actually doing the job.
Hmmm... I suspect there would be some who'd say: "Not just in the police force(s)", Worrals.
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