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War in Australia (any Oz Politics)

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics)

Old 2nd Sep 2014, 07:08
  #14361 (permalink)  
 
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David,

I neither know nor care! They are all ancient history so far as I'm concerned and there's nowt we can about them as they are all no longer in politics. What bothers me is the present and the future: we can do something about that.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 11:20
  #14362 (permalink)  
 
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Boats stopped - well more or less stopped.
Carbon tax - gone
Mining tax - gone.

I think even Ethel would have to admit that those were three of the Coalition's "core promises", on which they have now delivered, and within (just) twelve months of being elected.

I wonder what deals were done and what promises were made to Clive to get his robot Senators to cross the floor to vote with the government?
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 11:28
  #14363 (permalink)  
 
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No remorse, no feeling, no refection on the money wasted on the abomination of a scheme, just a criticism of the $ spent to really get the full and (hopefully) true picture.
The victims were all employees. Their employers were supposed to ensure their safety and each employer failed that duty of care.

While the government batts scheme was appallingly short sighted and encouraged rogue operators (and I recall a sparky friend of Dad's advising against installing foil insulation back in the mid 1980s because of the danger, particularly in a wooden Queenslander house ), IMO those four young men were killed by their negligent bosses. We and the media have focussed on the Big Picture; a scheme that was poorly thought out and neglectful wrt worker safety. That the Labor Party (the workers' party) should have been associated with such a scheme is (IMO) both shameful and wrong .

However, neither Rudd nor Garrett electrocuted those workers. Neither MP sent them into roofs with nail guns and lousy training. That directive came from their employers; people working for companies who jumped onto a quick way to make a buck, without fear or thought of consequence for their workers' safety or well-being. In the political malestrom, this seems to have been forgotten. These men died because of unsafe work practices. Maybe those practices spread from an ill-advised government incentive scheme and the Rudd government deserves a caning for encouraging short cuts, but at the end of the day it was their employers who sent them into the roofs, and their employers who killed them.
I think even Ethel would have to admit that those were three of the Coalition's "core promises", on which they have now delivered
Along with a bunch of plans that kind of slipped under the radar during promise time.
Medicare 'co' payments?
Six month wait for the dole?
Uni fee deregulation so we can be 'just like the US' (with a population of 20 million v. the US 350 million)?
Unconcealed hatred and disdain for any citizen who isn't earning at least 100K PA, because they're just a loser?
Bunch of 'promises' that didn't appear in the fine print, but if you believe the government spin are apparently what people voted for? Not me, I learned about Liberal 'promises' the hard way at the last Queensland election. Never more, Miranda, never more.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 2nd Sep 2014 at 11:42.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 14:19
  #14364 (permalink)  
 
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"Neither Rudd nor Garrett electrocuted those workers".
Not the same scale of course but Hitler and Himmler didn't drive the trains to Treblinka either.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 23:02
  #14365 (permalink)  
7x7
 
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ALPBC this morning reporting the "execution" of a second US journalist by I.S. in Iraq. Am I the only one a bit uncomfortable with the use of the word "execution" for something like this? I know it fits comfortably into the Left's agenda of legitimizing of these murderous thugs at every turn, but surely to God they should describe it as what it is - snuff porn murder carried out by some disaffected Brit hooligan?

The moderators removed an earlier post I put on this thread where I said that the Western intelligence agencies should send a very clear message to these people by seeking out and finding that Brit with minimum delay and - to use the word more appropriately - execute him, along with as many people as possible who are in his company at the time.

His family should be named as well. Notice I didn't say 'and shamed', because I don't think that's even a possibility any more.

Today is 3rd September, the anniversary of the declaration of war by Britain in 1939. We're at war again today, no less than we were in 1939, the only difference being that only the other side accepts that. The vast majority on our side haven't accepted it yet.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 23:53
  #14366 (permalink)  
 
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Am I the only one a bit uncomfortable with the use of the word "execution" for something like this?
No, you're not. I had a rant on the other thread about it. However, all the media is doing it (particularly the Murdoch press) so I do think it's a bit unfair to single out the ABC.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 01:23
  #14367 (permalink)  
 
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Now I'm fairly antilabor and lefty, but we need to keep some perspective on things.

These people didn't die because of the Labor party, they died because of incompetence. That incompetence was exasperated by the Labor party policies.

There is a reason we have standards and bureaucrats. The Labor party (Rudd) [email protected] himself when the GFC came, and spent like a drunken sailor. As a result he threw money into a big heap of lovefest industries that should not have had that big of an injection, in a short amount of time.

As such it expanded quicker than could be sustained at safe level. There is a statistical rate of work place accidents across all industries, with various ones having various standards governing them according to their risks. This just amplified a normally benign industries statistics with a big heap of cowboys taking part..

I don't give a sh!t about the witch hunt commission at the moment. I would rather see one into the policy of the spending, and reasoning behind it so it is better governed in the future.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 02:22
  #14368 (permalink)  
 
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we need to keep some perspective on things.
Hear, hear! RH is spot on. Whether the spending package was justified was not the subject of the Royal Commission. Perhaps it should have been but the RC was nothing more than a political witch hunt. After all, what do we now know that we didn't know before it started? Weren't the coronial enquiries sufficient to establish what went wrong? If not, we need to find out what needs to be done to that system to ensure that the cause of any death, but especially deaths in the workplace, is exhaustively investigated to help ensure the prevention of further deaths.

The Feds provided the money. The roll-out of the program was supposed to be overseen by the State Govts who 'manage' and 'control' workplace and industrial standards. That the four deaths happened north of a certain river speaks volumes. I've note heard a peep that's been critical of the States - have I missed something?
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 03:05
  #14369 (permalink)  
 
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While the government batts scheme was appallingly short sighted and encouraged rogue operators (and I recall a sparky friend of Dad's advising against installing foil insulation back in the mid 1980s because of the danger, particularly in a wooden Queenslander house ), IMO those four young men were killed by their negligent bosses. We and the media have focussed on the Big Picture; a scheme that was poorly thought out and neglectful wrt worker safety. That the Labor Party (the workers' party) should have been associated with such a scheme is (IMO) both shameful and wrong .

However, neither Rudd nor Garrett electrocuted those workers. Neither MP sent them into roofs with nail guns and lousy training. That directive came from their employers; people working for companies who jumped onto a quick way to make a buck, without fear or thought of consequence for their workers' safety or well-being. In the political malestrom, this seems to have been forgotten. These men died because of unsafe work practices. Maybe those practices spread from an ill-advised government incentive scheme and the Rudd government deserves a caning for encouraging short cuts, but at the end of the day it was their employers who sent them into the roofs, and their employers who killed them.
Well said Worrals. I am no labor supporter and was a very happy man the day Rudd/Gillard/whoever-the-leader/PM-is-today were thrown out of office but you are indeed correct - ultimately greedy bastard businesses with a negligent disregard for safety put those poor lads in those roof spaces.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 03:52
  #14370 (permalink)  
 
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hoofie, Worral, Ken, the way Rudd (I hesitate to say 'the Rudd government') went about throwing money into the pink batts scheme was the equivalent of an overweight, middle aged American tourist walking through a South American favela with diamond rings on every finger, a huge wallet bulge in his hip pocket, a large camera case over his shoulder and hundred dollar bills sticking out and visible from every pocket - and then blaming the poor (in every meaning of that word) slum dwellers for robbing him without accepting any responsibility himself for getting mugged.

Of course shonky operators were going to take advantage of was was money for nothing. I'm not excusing the businessmen who took advantage of what was on offer - many were nothing more than fly by night crooks. But only a dyed in the wool Leftie could not lay a major part of the blame on the so-called government that not only allowed those circumstances to exist, but whose incredibly stupid decisions made them all but inevitable.

The same applied to the school halls scheme - big companies took 30% and more in "consultancy fees" before sub-contracting to all too often dodgy contractors. As far as I'm aware, very little and possibly none of the wasted taxpayers' money sucked up by those large "consultants" has ever been recovered.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 06:27
  #14371 (permalink)  
 
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Andu

As with the batts, funding for the School Halls program came from the Feds but was administered and spent by the States. I think you'll find the the Private and Catholic sector received excellent value for money while it was the State School sector that was ripped-oo, be it by its own incompetence or averice by advisers, consultants etc etc. You know what I mean!
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 08:07
  #14372 (permalink)  
 
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The State school around the corner from where I live got 2 school halls. The first one was due to be ceremonially opened by the Prime Minister of the day ... Gillard or Rudd WTFK ! However a few of weeks before opening date a a couple of Yoofs with time on their hands, burnt the place down so the feds. gave out another bunch of money and Jules, no longer the P.M. came down and opened the place herself. Wasn't that nice of her ?
P.s. never did hear what happened to the arsonists, perhaps they are now working in the political industry....... or for the CFMEU maybe.( same thing really).
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 09:18
  #14373 (permalink)  
 
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and then blaming the poor (in every meaning of that word) slum dwellers for robbing him without accepting any responsibility himself for getting mugged.
The mugging is still a crime though, even if the victim was a moron. In 18th century Britain there was legal debate about whether a hungry person was entitled to steal enough food to feed themselves. The outcome? Note that lots of hungry people got transported here, and it wasn't because they'd been found not guilty of theft.

Let's say that the various state Liberal governments succeed in downgrading workplace safety requirements; something they'd all love to do in the name of 'red tape reduction' but in practice to keep the big end of town happy. Let's say that leads to increased workplace deaths and injuries. Who will they apportion blame to? Themselves? Or will there be much wringing of hands and shaking of heads about 'rogue operators', rather than the government's policy?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/cfmeu/10-way...ding-site-m9km

In truth, I've borrowed a Liberal argument. The Liberal POV is that governments are not responsible for an individual person or company's actions. That's their POV and they're entitled to it, but for the Libs to turn around and claim that it's somehow different wrt the insulation deaths is a little...strange. IMO I'm not the only one borrowing an argument from the other side because it's politically expedient.

We'd probably like to think that workplace safety is an apolitical issue, and I doubt that many people (whatever their side or however many millions of dollars they earn) actually want to see more accidents. However, the truth is that workplace safety is a political issue and has been since the Industrial Revolution. It's one of several issues (along with welfare, taxation and IR, to name a few) that sit in a moral and political grey area, where reasonable opinions differ wrt the 'correct' path. When the Libs argue a Labor POV (Big Evil Government killed workers) and Labor borrow a Liberal argument (blame the individual, not government policy) it's safe to say that Australian politics has followed Alice through the Looking Glass.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 3rd Sep 2014 at 09:42.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 10:05
  #14374 (permalink)  
 
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Worrals, if you want grey areas, may I recommend a book that digs into the grey areas of the Australian trade union movement and the "grey" position that the union leadership took during World War 2. 'Australia's Secret War' by Hal Colebatch. Anyone who thinks they know about what a wonderful job the Curtin government did after saving Australia from the "dreadful" Menzies UAP "neoNazis" might come away a tad confused. I found it an interesting read, if a little confronting.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 11:37
  #14375 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for the tip, I'll look it up.
Having read (among other things) the pamphlets 'Communism on the Waterfront' and 'Spotlight on Santamaria' (both of which were handed out at Church doors during the 1960s, not that the Church would ever be political ) it will add to the mix, particularly now that the DLP is back in the press, albiet thanks to a single senator.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 02:29
  #14376 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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And in Parliament; The Watermelon Party have once again (not that they actually needed to IMHO,) proved that they simply do not live in the real world, with the statement made by them that the Islamic State murderers* should not be called terrorists "because it encourages extremism."

Greens Senator Peter Whish-Wilson is quoted as saying that

"I think we need to find better words than 'terrorists' and 'terrorism' because, to me, this implies a very one-sided view of the world"
But he then went on to say;
"Often our forces could be seen by Iraqi civilians as terrorists"
Greens Leader Christine Milne backed the Senator's comments, and suggested that Australia's involvement, which is supported by the Labor Party, would increase extremism.

Words fail me!
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 02:45
  #14377 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry Pinky it just ain't going to get any better and it will be more than words failing us.

`THE outspoken Jacqui Lambie has revealed her Aboriginality during a sometimes fiery first speech to parliament, and has pledged to work for Jesus Christ and all Tasmanians in her next six years as a senator.

The Palmer United Party crossbencher opened her address by paying her respects to Australia’s traditional owners, telling parliament she shared their blood, culture and history through her mother, Sue.

“We trace our history over six generations to celebrated Aboriginal chieftain of the Tasmanian east coast, Manalargerna,” she said'

Jeezuz H Chr!st!

From now on I am going to tick the box as I understand it no one is allowed to question ones Abo riginallity heritage.

Went to school with Abo rigine kids in grade 1 & 2 and went down to their `homes' (humpies) by the Murray River and learnt a few things; also undertook some of their initiation rite things so guess I am therefore a Brother. So guess i am entitled?
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 02:57
  #14378 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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Age: 65
Posts: 2,541
Ah yes, Jacqui Lambie....

I was in Japan when she first sprang to prominence and from memory there was a very brief mention of her in the English language newspaper I got there. Described her as 'somewhat controversial' IIRC.

Heard a comment recently that 'she isn't the first ex army corporal with delusions of grandeur.'

I quite like that description, m'self!
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 03:08
  #14379 (permalink)  
 
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PtP; eloquently put
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 03:57
  #14380 (permalink)  
 
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Heh, looks like sleepy ol Tasmania will be in the news a bit now.

Wonder what it would take to build a channel tunnel to the place, apparently it costs a bit to get there Doing a bit of low level scud running across the strait a few months back i seen a big cargo boat wallowing about and the thought occurred that Bass strait is not that deep, probably as deep as the boat were long..... yeah, probably cheaper to buy every tasweagen a light aircraft and let em get themselves across.... while yer there, that crossing gets yer thinking...

Elsewhere, travelling via google earth the other night i were whizzing along one of Israel's borders and couldn't help but notice how green it were on the Israeli side and what a dump it were on the other side of the border. Sorta like when yer see that beautifully well maintained and cared for house on a suburban street right next door to the rented shitebox with the dead lawn and the upturned car in the front yard... yeah, probably shouldn't allow well cared for and maintained houses, they create problems...

"There are few weapons as deadly as the Israeli house. When its brick and mortar are combined together, the house, whether it is one of those modest one story hilltop affairs or a five floor apartment building complete with hot and cold running water, becomes far more dangerous than anything green and glowing that comes out of the Iranian centrifuges"...


Continues -

http://sultanknish.b*logs*pot.com.au/2014/09/the-deadly-israeli-house-strikes-again.html

Remove the two red * for the address

h/t - http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegr...ntalist_swans/









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