Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

[email protected]*^%#* Hi Vis Vests

Old 14th Apr 2019, 20:27
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wellington,NZ
Age: 61
Posts: 1,627
OP, the same applies to driving with lights on during the day.
You're simply training the brain to not see stuff that isn't lit up.
Tarq57 is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2019, 21:14
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 659
UK rail networks demands orange for everyone going lineside, staff, crew, spotters, cameramen, everyone.

Rans6.................
rans6andrew is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2019, 22:12
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Out in the sticks in DE56
Age: 80
Posts: 539
Originally Posted by rans6andrew View Post
UK rail networks demands orange for everyone going lineside, staff, crew, spotters, cameramen, everyone.

Rans6.................
The rationale here is orange is the warning colour. Red, universally, railside is stop. No messin. Green: usually safe to proceed. Yellow, I'm told can be confused with green in some colour-blind people. So, as Rans6 points out, hi-viz orange for all; everyone knows what to look for.
jimtherev is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2019, 22:25
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Bellambi
Posts: 1
When I was a train driver here in NSW, orange Hi Vis, like the UK was worn by every one. Easy to spot, but hard to tell if it was a person or any one of the countless other objects line side that were also Hi Vis orange until you got fairly close to them. Easiest to spot were the people moving, whether they were in Hi Vis or trespassers in ordinary street clothes.
little al is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 03:10
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Balikpapan, INDONESIA
Age: 66
Posts: 431
Originally Posted by fireflybob View Post
I agree with Worrals in the wilds - am not against wearing high viz when prudent to do so but this "nanny knows best" and the "jobsworth" enforcing it the way they do is what gets to me! As one who has been walking around aircraft ramps for circa 45 years now I think I probably know how to go about it!
Agree completely. It is all "lowest common denominator" stuff.
If we tell you that you must wear PPE at all times then it increases the probability that you will be wearing something half-ways appropriate at the time that the sky falls in.
Common-sense ? You can toss that one straight out of the window.

Speaking of which, my pet dislike is the edict (law) to wear safety helmets at all times when in an operating mine.
This one, sensibly, comes straight out of base requirements for underground mines.

But standing in the middle of a 1,000 hectare open pit mine it is hard to see the need.
Where are you Chicken Licken?
WingNut60 is online now  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 04:15
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 106
Having worked on the tarmac before and after hi-viz vests became 'fashionable' .. it is my personal view that they do contribute to safety.

While driving on the ramp, it may not strike you immediately that someone is around but if he was wearing a hi-viz vest you would stop and think..'didn't I see someone there a minute ago? Where is he now?. Especially with ULDs near an aircraft.. There would usually be someone checking the number of pallets and checking the nets or looking for one particular pallet.

Fact is in my neck of the woods (South-east Asia) the requirement for wearing said vests coincided with the boom in LCCs. This resulted in rushed turns and everyone was in everyone else's way to get a narrow-body out in 20minutes Compared to before when it took a leisurely 45 minutes (and that was considered short.. 1 hour was preferrred!).

My pet beef is the vest do not get renewed often enough. Some of the loader's vests are past their best and are a dirty yellow/green which is not optimum.

my $0.02

Anilv
Anilv is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 04:32
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 337
Re steering wheel usage from a bit back in the thread.

If you have had a steering wheel airbag go off you will quickly understand why you don't want your arm across the hub when it happens. You will get a facefull of arm and hand very forcefully if it happens.
In my case I was lucky enough to be holding at 3 and 9 o'clock and the bag went in between. At that, the fabric left friction burns on the top of both my thumbs.
Apparently arm, wrist and facial injuries are a significant risk from steering wheel airbags.

While this method is popular, it isnít as safe as the hand-to-hand method. In fact, some countries have outlawed hand-over-hand steering. It also exposes you to additional risk of injury to arms, hands, and face if the airbag deploys.
innuendo is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 06:12
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 64
Posts: 57
The eyes/brain are most acutely tuned to motion detection.
A bright reflective coating, mostly dependent on being illuminated by another light source only goes so far.
Today's technology should make a couple of flashing Cob Leds, solar powered, battery backup, on the vests possible and might be a step up in safety.
However, would cost some extra pennies.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 08:18
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Livin de island life
Posts: 464
Flashing lights can also be confusing in some circumstances. When seeing small, flashing red lights on the road in the dark, I immediately look for an emergency situation in the distance. A bicycle, moving slowly, tends not to be my first thought and the flashing lights are distracting. I do wonder if they are even legal in a road situation when cars and motorcycles require steady red lights..........
flyingfemme is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 09:41
  #130 (permalink)  
Drain Bamaged
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Earth
Age: 51
Posts: 396
Originally Posted by Tarq57 View Post
OP, the same applies to driving with lights on during the day.
You're simply training the brain to not see stuff that isn't lit up.
Cacabull argument! Iíll keep my lights on during day, thank you very much.

ehwatezedoing is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 10:27
  #131 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: bkk
Posts: 59
I see this thread has been resurrected after nearly eight years and no where has the original question been addressed.
I know they are easier to see, that's stating the bleeding obvious.
But is there a definitive study to prove HVV are effective?
kangaroota is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 10:30
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Fletcher Memorial Home
Age: 54
Posts: 302
Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
But standing in the middle of a 1,000 hectare open pit mine it is hard to see the need.
Where are you Chicken Licken?
I agree the immediate need may not be apparent, but speaking as someone who deals with safety on a daily basis and has to enforce these sort of rules, in most instances the simpler the rules the better. For example, we had a couple of workplaces that were up a six metre ladder. If you are up the ladder you are supposed to put bunting around the area below the workplace so that people don't wander under you working on the off chance you drop something on them. To go up the ladder you had to have working at heights gear, and wear a safety helmet. Once up the ladder you had nothing above you, but when you get into the cramped equipment lockers there was a chance you would bump into something with your head with the safety helmet on.

The rules started simple, you don't go through the bunting ad you don't go up the ladder without a helmet. Then one day the bunting was close to the bottom of the ladder and someone was spotted nipping under the bunting and into the shed the ladder is mounted on. The argument was "but it was only a couple of feet and they were working round the other side of the platform...." So now the rule is you move the bunting back and wear a helmet if you are inside the bunting but not on the platform.

Then someone on the platform crawled under a piece of equipment, stood up and almost scalped themselves. Now the rule is you wear a hard hat anywhere inside the bunting.....

The problem is that if you start caveats or exemptions on rules, someone will misinterpret the rules, or just play the "yes but I wasn't doing that" card. Currently the rule stands at "you go outside the office building, you wear a safety helmet" because no one has yet found a way around that.

Ogre is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 10:41
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Balikpapan, INDONESIA
Age: 66
Posts: 431
Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
I agree the immediate need may not be apparent, ...........
I have no problem with ANY safety measure that is enacted in response to a properly conducted Job Safety Analysis, or such like.
Spontaneously enacted decrees (aka knee-jerk) rightly evoke questioning and ultimately undermine confidence in the system upon which they are enacted.
They are all too common and frequently arise from a mis-guided perception that every safety incident must result in an edict, no matter how scatter-brained.

WingNut60 is online now  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 11:06
  #134 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 74
Posts: 1,859
I recently visited a 'heritage' site (Beamish Museum) and entered the drift mine.
Hard hats were issued to all visitors (to the mine) and I soon discovered why.
I am not tall, but nevertheless it wasn't long before my hat was striking the roof (even though I was stooping to avoid the obvious lack of clearance) - sometimes with enough impact to arrest my progress.
Apparently the height of the passageways was determined by the height of the ponies that pulled the trucks.
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 11:17
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Balikpapan, INDONESIA
Age: 66
Posts: 431
Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
I recently visited a 'heritage' site (Beamish Museum) and entered the drift mine.
Hard hats were issued to all visitors (to the mine) and I soon discovered why.
I am not tall, but nevertheless it wasn't long before my hat was striking the roof (even though I was stooping to avoid the obvious lack of clearance) - sometimes with enough impact to arrest my progress.
Apparently the height of the passageways was determined by the height of the ponies that pulled the trucks.
Very sensible in underground operations.
Many injuries and fatalities underground are from relatively small, individual rocks falling; much more common than cave-in type incidents.

Pretty much unheard of in open cast mines.

WingNut60 is online now  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 12:55
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
Posts: 1,004
Have I mentioned my friend who was doing his pre-flight and summoned as follows on a loud hailer - 'will the man by G-xxxx in the bright orange anorak please come to control. When he went, the controller demanded ' Why aren't you wearing a hi-vis jacket'.
Fitter2 is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 15:08
  #137 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,515
Hats were mentioned.

How many times do we see hard hats balanced on a head? Easy to get knocked off and become a falling hazard themselves. Or the extra height of the helmet impacts a low roof and causes neck compression.

Not being issued with a hard hat I used to wear a padded hat when at risk of impact. It cushioned my head and didn't damage anything I bumped into. I was always being told it was a loose article hazard but it was less so than a hard hat.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 15:27
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LONDON
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by bnt View Post
Well, I was trying to answer the original question, which was about something that "proves conclusively". I just don't think that's possible to do with a controlled study, never mind a historical study (over time) or a longitudinal study (between different airports). So there are no guarantees, and we're left with "playing the odds".
?
Exactly the point that was made, tongue-in-cheek, in this report published online by the British Medical Journal. Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jumping from aircraft: randomized controlled trial

The study was forced to conclude that

Parachute use did not reduce death or major traumatic injury when jumping from aircraft in the first randomized evaluation of this intervention. However, the trial was only able to enroll participants on small stationary aircraft on the ground, suggesting cautious extrapolation to high altitude jumps.
(As discussed on PPRuNe here )
netstruggler is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2019, 22:21
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 419
Coming at this from a non aviation aspect, anyone driving through the continent is expected (legally, with fines) to have a hi viz vest for every occupant to hand and worn before exiting a broken down vehicle. As usual with EU rules, some Countries don't accept ye;;ow, so orange is the only hi viz acceptable if driving through several. Not only that, but two warning triangles to comply with some regulations. Considering that many rural or non city roads have no lighting, it becomes sensible, but often the only cars complying with visible hi vis in cars are Brits.

As for schoolchildren, not only does it show the school is ensuring the precious offspring are being given every protection, but it possibly helps spot those making a bid for freedom.

Yes, it's tedious seeing them everywhere when it defeats the object, but as a light hearted comment, that's my tuppence
Icare9 is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2019, 06:10
  #140 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 55
Posts: 5,299
I seem to recall some airshow organiser saying there were too many hi-viz wearers at one event; from emergency personnel to programme sellers...
treadigraph is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.