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Old 17th Jul 2021, 00:08
  #9621 (permalink)  
 
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Totally agree, he deserved that applause, just wait till he gets a competitive car, but hats off to Williams too for progressing to this point, quite liking the new format.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 09:21
  #9622 (permalink)  
 
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To be fair, so far the new format has been the same as the old one except that the quali was on friday instead of saturday and they've only had the one short free practice session to dial-in the car. The Mercedes Aero upgrades seem to have worked and Mercedes seem to have done a better job of dialling in the car than Red Bull (but expect that to potentially change after today's FP2).

Far more interesting (IMHO) was what SLH said in the interview afterwards. In his long interview with Martin Brundle over the winter he said that he didn't do three things that other drivers did to learn the track - he didn't walk the track, he didn't "paint it on his closed eyelids" and he didn't spend hours in the sim. He said the sim didn't work for him (which is why he never competes in the eSport simulated races), and that he could only use it to learn any control/switching layout changes.

But in the post quali interview he said he had spend hours in the Sim on Thursday and again on Friday morning ("more use than standing around chatting in the garage") trying to get the best stab at preparing, and that it had been useful. So this may be a change in his approach to racing...

PDR
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 09:30
  #9623 (permalink)  
 
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Yes - thought it was interesting when he said it in the long interview. He was quite dismissive - especially walking the track - and said he'd rather save his energy for being in the car
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 09:50
  #9624 (permalink)  
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It seems that the Red Bull doesn’t like the hard tyre at all and the Mercedes is equal to them on the soft. The only tyre on which they outperformed the Mercedes was the medium.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-m...alifying-work/

That seems to rule out a one stop strategy and makes soft/medium/medium Red Bull’s best strategy - and hope Mercedes don’t do a split strategy like last year with either Hamilton or Bottas going one stop medium/hard and the other medium/medium/hard like last year.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/...nniversary-gp/

https://formulaspy.com/f1/mercedes-e...ne-63012-63012

Last edited by ORAC; 17th Jul 2021 at 10:12.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 09:57
  #9625 (permalink)  
 
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I enjoy F1 but I still don't understand the rules for this weekend's race. I read a BBC article about it but all it said was that the sprint race determines the grid for the actual grand prix, but how exactly? Does the order of the finishers in the sprint race reflect the pole positions for the real race? What if there's an accident on the first corner of the sprint race which takes out a bunch of the faster cars? What happens then?

Apologies for being so naive about the event, it's just that I'm not at all clear how pole positions will be determined for the actual full race. If someone could provide a succinct answer, I'll be very grateful.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 10:15
  #9626 (permalink)  
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read a BBC article about it but all it said was that the sprint race determines the grid for the actual grand prix, but how exactly? Does the order of the finishers in the sprint race reflect the pole positions for the real race?
Yes. It’s official title is the “Qualifying Sprint”, the official Pole Position for the record books goes to the winner of the sprint - not Hamilton for being fastest yesterday.

What if there's an accident on the first corner of the sprint race which takes out a bunch of the faster cars? What happens then?
They start at the back of the grid for the Sunday race.

Which is why Norris said he, and the other front runners, won’t be taking any chances during the sprint race; whilst Russel said that, starting 8th in the sprint, he’d being going for overtakes as he really had nothing to lose.

——————————

Damage in the sprint is treated in the same way as damage between normal qualifying and the race. All grid penalties relating to gearbox changes, exceeding power unit component allowances, arising from gaining three reprimands or tyre misuse are applied to the main Sunday race.

The drivers that do not complete the required 90% of the sprint race distance to be classified as finishers will be lined behind the classified finishers based on laps completed. If drivers complete the same number of laps, whoever was classified higher in the starting grid for the sprint will start ahead.

Last edited by ORAC; 17th Jul 2021 at 10:26.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 11:18
  #9627 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Yes. It’s official title is the “Qualifying Sprint”, the official Pole Position for the record books goes to the winner of the sprint - not Hamilton for being fastest yesterday.

They start at the back of the grid for the Sunday race.

Which is why Norris said he, and the other front runners, won’t be taking any chances during the sprint race; whilst Russel said that, starting 8th in the sprint, he’d being going for overtakes as he really had nothing to lose.

——————————

Damage in the sprint is treated in the same way as damage between normal qualifying and the race. All grid penalties relating to gearbox changes, exceeding power unit component allowances, arising from gaining three reprimands or tyre misuse are applied to the main Sunday race.

The drivers that do not complete the required 90% of the sprint race distance to be classified as finishers will be lined behind the classified finishers based on laps completed. If drivers complete the same number of laps, whoever was classified higher in the starting grid for the sprint will start ahead.
Well, thanks. I was going to reply and thank you but that was before your last edit and that just complicates things. So if there's a crash among the leaders and other cars get damaged and it's all a bit of mayhem, then no one will know what pole position they've finished the sprint race. Is that a fair summary? For instance, I don't think gearbox changes will happen during a race, so let's rule that out. Exceeding power unit component allowances, well, that won't be decided during a race either - correct me if I'm wrong.

All I can say is thanks for your original reply and thank you for muddying the waters afterward. I still have no idea of how the pole positions will be decided for Sunday's race.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 13:27
  #9628 (permalink)  
 
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Sprint Qualifying? whatever next?
Maybe a drivers beauty parade, once in swimwear. once in evening dress? with questions asked by Martin Brundle and Johnny Herbert?

F1 is becoming a circus act...lets keep it simple and straight forward...
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 13:40
  #9629 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATSA1 View Post
Sprint Qualifying? whatever next?
Rock, paper, scissors.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 13:52
  #9630 (permalink)  
 
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So either it's been so long since I left the UK that I have forgotten how sarcasm works, or other people are as genuinely confused about the current F1 rules as I am. Can someone please put me out of my misery?
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 14:03
  #9631 (permalink)  
 
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PS. I love the BBC, so thought I could get a breakdown of the rules, but this is what I read:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/57839254


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Old 17th Jul 2021, 14:15
  #9632 (permalink)  
 
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Watching the second free practice today, I heard one of the Japanese commentators saying, “Right, we had qualifying last night, so what exactly is the point of this free practice?”
There was a short silence, then “I suppose the teams will be making minor adjustments… .”
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 14:35
  #9633 (permalink)  
 
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There was a free practice session today? I thought there were other races going on.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 14:40
  #9634 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hokulea View Post
So if there's a crash among the leaders and other cars get damaged and it's all a bit of mayhem, then no one will know what pole position they've finished the sprint race.
Their grid positions for the main race are determined by their finishing positions in the sprint race. So their grid position is the order they cross the finish line in for the sprint race, unless penalties are applied. This is just like normal quali - their grid positions are determined by the position they finish in qualifying, after adjustment for penalties like blocking, pit-lane speeding, unsafe release etc.

Anyone who doesn't complete the sprint race will start the main race at the back of the grid. If two or more people fail to complete the sprint race then they go to the back of the grid with the one who completed the fewest laps last, then the next-most laps and so on. If two people fail to complete with the same number of laps their respective positions at the back of the grid will be determined by their placing in the friday quali session.

The final grid order will initially be set by the qualifying results, and then penalties will be applied in the chronological order they were incurred to determine the final positions (I hope that's clear - if not please ask)

Is that a fair summary? For instance, I don't think gearbox changes will happen during a race, so let's rule that out. Exceeding power unit component allowances, well, that won't be decided during a race either - correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong

Under the current rules you are only allowed to use a total number of certain controlled components (internal combustion engine, MGUK, MGUH, Control Electronics, Turbo Charger and energy store) per season. If you have to change one and go over the limit you incur a grid penalty of 5 places for each excess component you take. So if you cross the line first in the sprint race but have to change an MGUH for the race on Sunday (and you've already used the maximum amount) you will be moved back to 6th place on the grid and so on. The person who crossed the line second will be promoted to first on the grid, but if they ALSO take an excess component overnight THEY will be moved to 6th on the grid and you will move up to 5th, because they will deem that the second-placed person must have suffered the failure after the first place person (because he was still running when the first place person had finished the race)

Gearboxes are different. With gearboxes it's not the number you use that's limited - it's how long they stay in the car. Each gearbox must stay in the car for six (IIRC) races*. Running a gearbox for less than 6 races incurs a 5-place grid penalty. So if someone changes a gearbox between the sprint race and the main race they get the five-place grid-drop. If they change the gearbox (with less than 6 races done) after the MAIN race then they get a 5-place grid drop in the NEXT race.

The one exception to this is that you are allowed to change a gearbox before the six races are up without a penalty if you retired from the previous race before being classified (before the leader started his last lap) PROVIDED you can satisfy the FIA Delegate that it is actually broken rather than worn.

Gearbox penalties will be applied after race-rule violation penalties but before any infringements committed on the Sunday (like doing Practice starts from the wrong place in the pit lane).

Does that explain it?

PDR

* You are allowed to swap to a different one for friday practice provided the race one is put back in for the start of saturday. You are also allowed to do some like-for-like parts replacements provided you can satisfy the FIA Delegate that the part is broken (chipped / missing tooth on a cog) rather than worn (run bearing).
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 14:53
  #9635 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you so much, PDR, that really helps. I think the only thing I want to mention is that if you need a gearbox change in the middle of a race, then you aren't going to finish that race. The point I was trying to make is that a technical problem like that will likely mean whoever suffers it during a sprint race will be on the back of the grid, no matter how good or fast a driver they are.

I think I understand the idea behind this, it's to make it more competitive and increase the chances of real racing. I just worry there may be consequences that haven't been thought through but let's see how it all works out At the very least we get to see two races over the weekend which is alright with me.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 16:06
  #9636 (permalink)  
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So that’s Perez’s at the back of the grid tomorrow. Red Bull will not be happy.

Medium tyres blistering after 14 laps. Even hotter tomorrow so expect at least 2 pit stops and at least one set of hard tyres to be needed - which will not suit Red Bull.

Free choice for the teams to start tomorrow. Hard/medium/medium or Medium/medium/hard?
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 16:10
  #9637 (permalink)  
 
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Did Valtteri take fastest lap from Lewis?
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 16:21
  #9638 (permalink)  
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No fastest lap in the sprint, only the race.

Interesting that Bottas couldn’t keep up with either of them even on the soft tyre.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 16:28
  #9639 (permalink)  
 
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Why did Max have large flames coming out from his left front wheel on the start line? All that smoke reminded me of Lewis's restart at Baku.

The stewards were very lenient with Alonso's repeated weaving.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 16:31
  #9640 (permalink)  
 
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Well, it was more entertaining to watch than another free practice session, but I'll take the traditional qualifying format over this sprint stuff any weekend.
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