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Old 25th Oct 2020, 09:33
  #8661 (permalink)  
 
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Said it before but feel I need to say it again... track limit rules need to be simple to understand and clearly defined.

You shouldnít need it explaining at each circuit. The safety car shouldnít have to demonstrate it for the tv cameras.

If you cross the white line with all your car, and no tyre remains on the tarmac, that should be it.


None of this confusing coloured tarmac is sometimes acceptable and sometimes isnít, the kerbs are ok but sometimes not.
Black tarmac, at least one tyre in contact at all times. Simple.
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 09:36
  #8662 (permalink)  
 
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The "limits" have been revised (read relaxed) at multiple turns by the FIA due to ...too many infringements being recorded during FP1/2. I can live with it but still sounds like a strange way to manage the issue
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 10:54
  #8663 (permalink)  
 
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Good to see someone spoke to Mad Max about his appalling outburst after the collision with Stroll. Someone should also tell him that its better to let keep his mouth shut and let people think he is a nasty little St, instead of opening it and proving it.
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 11:15
  #8664 (permalink)  
 
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True indeed regarding the 'limits' for when setting fast times in practice and qualifying. One lap disqualified.

In the actual race, however, ...(?)

Portimao is a special case though, as many of the corners are on 'blind' apexes; the drivers looking out sideways say they cannot actually see where their tyres are, apparently. I guess they have to develop super keen senses and try not to overcook anything.

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Old 25th Oct 2020, 12:06
  #8665 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
I guess they have to develop super keen senses and try not to overcook anything.
These are 20 of the best drivers in the world.
They should be good enough to manage to keep the car on the track.

The trouble is that there is no real punishment for running outside the track, itís all kerb and concrete and tarmac runoff these days.

Make it punishing. Gravel/sand, wet grass, dusty dirt.
Something that costs time for running wide, takes several corners to clean the tyres back up.

If they canít take that corner as fast without running wide, then they need to take the corner slower.

I bet if it was an automatic 5 or 10 second penalty per infringement theyíd find a way to stay on the track.
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 12:55
  #8666 (permalink)  
 
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This Portuguese track does have gravel traps; itís interesting to see how most of them have managed to avoid the gravel, sometimes by the very tips of their toes.
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 14:45
  #8667 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
Good to see someone spoke to Mad Max about his appalling outburst after the collision with Stroll. Someone should also tell him that its better to let keep his mouth shut and let people think he is a nasty little St, instead of opening it and proving it.
To be fair to Max, it wasn't him who chose to broadcast the team radio for our "entertainment". And it was Stroll...
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 15:09
  #8668 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
To be fair to Max, it wasn't him who chose to broadcast the team radio for our "entertainment". And it was Stroll...
And that makes it ok?

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Old 25th Oct 2020, 15:24
  #8669 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
And that makes it ok?
Apologies, I'd only heard the bleeped version. Now seen the full version and no, it's not OK. Absolutely unacceptable.
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 15:32
  #8670 (permalink)  
 
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Now itís too far the other way! Reams of black and white flags, warnings and time penalties for exceeding track limits. Weíve surely never had anything like this before.
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Old 25th Oct 2020, 20:49
  #8671 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
This Portuguese track does have gravel traps; itís interesting to see how most of them have managed to avoid the gravel, sometimes by the very tips of their toes.
Not at the edge of the track though... they have to be quite far off the track to run into the gravel.

Drifting a cars-width wide on any corner should have its disadvantage, not just be quicker or no slower than remaining properly on the track.

But the black and white flags are getting too much as well.

Make it a single, simple, consistent rule, across all circuits.

Every breach gets a lap time deleted. In the race you get the benefit of the doubt on lap 1 only, then one single freebie the rest of the race. After that, automatic time penalty.

Force them to stick to the track. Or modify the track to force them to stick to it.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:05
  #8672 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
Good to see someone spoke to Mad Max about his appalling outburst after the collision with Stroll. Someone should also tell him that its better to let keep his mouth shut and let people think he is a nasty little St, instead of opening it and proving it.
meh. Iíd say in this case it was 50/50. But poor Lance has a dubious reputation when it comes to doing stupid things and as he just had finished a fast lap I can understand Max in his frustration. Not knowing that Lance is doing a second fast lap. No further action was the right thing to do imo. Lance on Lando was another stupid move by the canadian who has nothing to seek in F1.

what is striking this year is the huge difference in quality amongst teammates. Itís always being said that the car is way more important than the driver. I still believe this to be the case but Lewis 25 seconds on Bottas. Verstappen again lapping Albon. Leclerc is making Vettel look like another Bottas. Then the both Canadianís being humiliated again and again by their teammates.

Bottas and Albon should look for another seat as they have nothing to show for in a top team. F1 would benefit hugely when Lewis, Max and Charles could fight it out in competitive cars. I am also really curious to see what Russel could do in a better car. The only teammates that seem to be somehow balanced are Renault, Haas and Mclaren.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:17
  #8673 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
The only teammates that seem to be somehow balanced are Renault, Haas and Mclaren.
Iíd disagree on Renault.
I think Danny Ric has made Ocon look distinctly unremarkable. Particularly in qualifying. I know he had a season out, then a further delay to the start of 2020, but I think Ocon ought to be fully up to speed again by now. And he is not as impressive as I was hoping or expecting.

When he was at Force India, I expected him to be in a top team, probably Mercedes, by now. And I think at the time he was showing that kind of potential.
But not anymore.

I sincerely hope that if Russell isnít in a race seat next year, the same doesnít happen to him.


Vettel is a strange one. There is no way he is that much slower than Leclerc. 2-3 1/10ths maybe. But 0.5-1.0 seconds no way. I think they car naturally suits Leclercs driving style more, and theyíre continuously developing with him in mind not Vettel, so itís getting further away from suiting Seb.
I feel like the environment in Ferrari is toxic as well, which really isnít helping.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:25
  #8674 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer View Post
Vettel is a strange one. There is no way he is that much slower than Leclerc. 2-3 1/10ths maybe. But 0.5-1.0 seconds no way. I think they car naturally suits Leclercs driving style more, and theyíre continuously developing with him in mind not Vettel, so itís getting further away from suiting Seb.
I feel like the environment in Ferrari is toxic as well, which really isnít helping.
It would seem that Albon is in the same boat, the "improvements" that they are making to the RedBull to suit Max's driving, means that the car is getting worse for Albon.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 17:02
  #8675 (permalink)  
 
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Anyway, congratulations and well done to Lewis Hamilton.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 17:28
  #8676 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hiflymk3 View Post
Anyway, congratulations and well done to Lewis Hamilton.
He's a great driver - one of the very few real racers in F1. Thoroughly well-deserved win and I hope he can clinch his 7th title this year.
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Old 27th Oct 2020, 13:06
  #8677 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
It would seem that Albon is in the same boat, the "improvements" that they are making to the RedBull to suit Max's driving, means that the car is getting worse for Albon.
Nah I donít think so. Max is also not too happy about this years car. I think Albon is not as talented as Max. Being constantly humiliated by Max is ruining his self confidence. If anything Albon went to RB too early, just like Gasly. In AT Gasly has risen again. However I donít think Pierre will go back to RB. My money would be on Perez. Fast, stable, experienced, brings Carlos Slim to the table and a huge market for the horrible drink in Mexico.
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Old 27th Oct 2020, 16:21
  #8678 (permalink)  
 
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Kimi Raikkonen’s opening lap at the Portuguese Grand Prix was among the best of all time, according to Martin Brundle. The veteran Finn showed all his experience and talent to move up from 16th position to sixth in his Alfa Romeo at the Algarve International Circuit, which was low on grip and made even more slippery by a very light rain shower. Ultimately, Raikkonen’s flying start counted for nothing because he finished the race in 11th position and missed out on scoring World Championship points for what would have been only the second time this season.
Brundle drove in 158 Formula 1 races himself and has watched and commentated on hundreds more. He is not prone to hyperbole, so his assessment of Raikkonen’s first lap in Portimao is particularly striking. In his regular post-race column on Sky F1, Brundle said: “Kimi Raikkonen, from 16th and the ‘dirty’ side of the grid, made up 10 places in what was surely one of the greatest opening laps in F1 history. “A textbook study for budding racing drivers which will endure in perpetuity, the 41-year-old’s catlike reactions were truly impressive.”
Brundle also described how awkward it is becoming to conduct interviews with Valtteri Bottas after he has once more been put in his place by his Mercedes team-mate Lewis Hamilton. It happened again in Portugal, with Bottas having been leading when he was passed on lap 20 by Hamilton with the Finn eventually finishing 25 seconds behind after both had been put on the same tyre strategy.
“If Hamilton wasn’t around he’d be a megastar,” said Brundle about Bottas, who admitted he had no answer to the pace of his colleague who broke Michael Schumacher’s record of F1 race wins by achieving his 92nd victory. “Instead, he just has to take questions on basically what went wrong. I find it uncomfortable to interview him immediately after a race, looking in his eyes to see a mix of fading adrenalin and disappointment, trying to find the right words to tread a middle ground of celebrating another podium while he’s been trounced again by his team-mate. If you’re going to have to fight Hamilton then it might as well be in the equal fastest car, but if Lewis re-signs for multiple years then Valtteri will surely have to look elsewhere on the grid for his own self-esteem and motivation.”

Last edited by sidevalve; 27th Oct 2020 at 16:37.
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Old 27th Oct 2020, 17:54
  #8679 (permalink)  
 
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Watching it back after the race on Sunday... Kimiís opening lap had the hallmarks of Senna at Donington. Only even better.

It showed irrefutably that Kimi is still good enough to be in the sport, and weíre the Ferrari engine better, or the Alfa chassis better, or both, he could be a serious midfield contender on the regular.

Bottas needs to leave Mercedes now. He will never beat Hamilton over a season, this whole Bottas 2.0 is great and all when he wins, but he canít sustain it when he doesnít. He needs to keep that fight when he gets beaten, but he doesnít seem to, itís pummelled out of him and he lacks the motivation and drive I think to ever do better than runner up.
He is not Nicoís equal, and certainly not close enough to Lewis to really challenge him.
Better for him to drop to another team where he can beat his teammate, or at least have a chance of being an equal in an equal car.

That would also free up a seat in the best car for one of the genuinely top drivers on the grid. Of which there are not many. Max is one, but heís at Red Bull. Russell definitely is, and he deserves that seat. Potentially Norris could be classed as a top driver too. And Danny Ric. But theyíre both McLaren which hopefully could and should be back strongly challenging the Red Bull next year and in 2022.
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Old 27th Oct 2020, 20:43
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I understand the idea that Bottas might be happier beating a team mate in a lesser car but:

Would you rather be second in the world and share the podium regularly with the champion or come, say, tenth, and have the consolation "Oh but he did beat his team mate."

Personally, If I was second in any world championship for anything I wouldn't be unhappy!
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