Formula 1
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Close by!
Posts: 319
Originally Posted by atakacs
Actually there is a historic precedent with Renault, who were allowed more evolution to their engine than per regulation some seasons ago (I'm sure PDR1 will come up with the exact details).
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,284
Originally Posted by atakacs
Actually there is a historic precedent with Renault, who were allowed more evolution to their engine than per regulation some seasons ago (I'm sure PDR1 will come up with the exact details).
But ferrari's problem is more than just power - they are the slowest of the ferrari-powered cars. So allowing an engine upgrade (even if they could produce one) would not be a panecea.
PDR
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by 747 jock
But surely his phrase of:
Means that he doesn't think that anything he does will have an effect in America so why kneel and expect others to do the same if it won't have any effect?
Means that he doesn't think that anything he does will have an effect in America so why kneel and expect others to do the same if it won't have any effect?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 18,169
Originally Posted by PDR1
If you only want to watch the sport why do you even switch to the F1 channel before 14:09? You know when the race starts. It always starts at the same time. If hearing someone else's viewpoint risks so much damage to your snowflake sensibilities then you can just turn on when the race starts. I assume you can tell the time?
We have a born & bred british driver in a team based in the UK with largely british staff and they are completely dominating a sport - not through privillage or patronage, but simply through raw ability and hard work. Did you ever see Jamaicans complaining about how Usain Bolt made sprinting boring?
Guys like you disgust me - you drag the country down. No wonder it's so hard to instil any pride in the next generations.
PDR
We have a born & bred british driver in a team based in the UK with largely british staff and they are completely dominating a sport - not through privillage or patronage, but simply through raw ability and hard work. Did you ever see Jamaicans complaining about how Usain Bolt made sprinting boring?
Guys like you disgust me - you drag the country down. No wonder it's so hard to instil any pride in the next generations.
PDR
Because Sky in their wisdom have lumped all the extra garbage into your downloads even though the race is all I set to record and the track walk, it records about 10 programmes when all i want is qually and the race, it used to just record just those at the start of their service. so the race alone comes with an hour plus of recording before and after. I am often not in when it starts.
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Bruce No1
Is it simply because this won't generate as much publicity for him?
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 55
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by PDR1
Renault were allowed to make and extra performance-related engine upgrade in 2010 when the rules actually required no changes from the 2009 build standard, because they were running at a major power disadvantage.
But ferrari's problem is more than just power - they are the slowest of the ferrari-powered cars. So allowing an engine upgrade (even if they could produce one) would not be a panecea.
But ferrari's problem is more than just power - they are the slowest of the ferrari-powered cars. So allowing an engine upgrade (even if they could produce one) would not be a panecea.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Japan
Posts: 751
Some people were having fun, judging by their radio input.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...t4pdzJdAl.html
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...t4pdzJdAl.html
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,284
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Because Sky in their wisdom have lumped all the extra garbage into your downloads even though the race is all I set to record and the track walk, it records about 10 programmes when all i want is qually and the race, it used to just record just those at the start of their service. so the race alone comes with an hour plus of recording before and after. I am often not in when it starts.
...hours and hours of it, and yet you only vent apoplexy over a couple of minutes spent talking to one driver about a significant issue of the day. I also record it on sky, and I also see hours of stuff I have very little interest in. But I recognise that to justify the huge fees F1 charged for the rights Sky have to maximise the breadth of the audience they are appealing to, so they add stuff about the countries they visit, the lives and lifestyles of the participants, basic "this is what tyre compound means" plus lots of discussion and banter between their presenters which ranges from interesting to utterly, suicide-inducingly banal. Others find this interesting viewing, some find this draws them in to watch the sport itself. It isn't for me, but if that's what it takes to subsidise my sport then I can stand the trivial inconvenience it presents if it's subsidising something I enjoy, because I can fast-forward through the guff while settling in my seat.
Is it that discussions on endemic and systemic racism make you feel uncomfortable or simply that you have yet to master the fast-forward button on the remote? If the latter then I'm sure we can arrange some remedial classes in basic remote control handset operation for you, but be advised that if you only have an EASA remote control license and Sky type rating you will not be able to exercise those privileges in the UK after the end of the year. If the latter then I'm afraid you are part of the problem that has spawned these events, so perhaps you might usefully spend the time reflecting on that instead of spouting about it.
YMMV,
PDR
Last edited by PDR1; 1st Sep 2020 at 09:53.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Eastern Cape, South Africa
Posts: 80
I agree with PDR1 that giving Ferrari's power unit more HP/Watts will not solve their woes..but how has the chassis/aeros turned to a crock of animal waste?
How a car can actually go slower at the same track one year on is a bit of a mystery to me, given that the regs havent changed much..
But this problem isnt new...Back in 1998, World Champion Jacques Villeneuve was actually lapped in his Williams by the McLarens, with the Mecedes/Ilmor in the back... Also remember Hamilton finishing a lowly 16th at Silverstone, the year after winning his first championship, and winning by a whole minute at the same track...
But Ferrari have got a dog slow car, that is going to get hammered (excuse the pun!) at Monza this weekend...and not just by the Black Arrows either!
Then watch the heads roll!!
How a car can actually go slower at the same track one year on is a bit of a mystery to me, given that the regs havent changed much..
But this problem isnt new...Back in 1998, World Champion Jacques Villeneuve was actually lapped in his Williams by the McLarens, with the Mecedes/Ilmor in the back... Also remember Hamilton finishing a lowly 16th at Silverstone, the year after winning his first championship, and winning by a whole minute at the same track...
But Ferrari have got a dog slow car, that is going to get hammered (excuse the pun!) at Monza this weekend...and not just by the Black Arrows either!
Then watch the heads roll!!
Last edited by ATSA1; 1st Sep 2020 at 10:41.
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 2,407
Ferrari’s car this year is clearly a major issue. One that needs fixing urgently.
But for the last several years, Ferrari have been comfortably 2nd or 3rd fastest (best) team, usually 2nd, ahead of Red Bull.
Ferrari’s problem is such short-termism.
If they’re not winning they replace the team principle. Then the sporting or technical directors. Then the team principle again. Then the head of Ferrari. Then the team principle again!
None of them even have time to rearrange the desk in the office nevermind effect any change. They need to make a change, give it time to actually have an effect. I think they had 3 team principles in a single year, one of which was basically a car dealership principle.
We never saw Dietrich Mateschitz or Helmut Marco kicking out Christian Horner or Adrian Newey because they weren’t the best team.
Ultimately you can’t always be the best team all the time. Striving for better while accepting that you will inevitably not always be the best is ok. Otherwise you’re delusional and you’ll never get the results you’re after, which is Ferrari’s problem right now.
But for the last several years, Ferrari have been comfortably 2nd or 3rd fastest (best) team, usually 2nd, ahead of Red Bull.
Ferrari’s problem is such short-termism.
If they’re not winning they replace the team principle. Then the sporting or technical directors. Then the team principle again. Then the head of Ferrari. Then the team principle again!
None of them even have time to rearrange the desk in the office nevermind effect any change. They need to make a change, give it time to actually have an effect. I think they had 3 team principles in a single year, one of which was basically a car dealership principle.
We never saw Dietrich Mateschitz or Helmut Marco kicking out Christian Horner or Adrian Newey because they weren’t the best team.
Ultimately you can’t always be the best team all the time. Striving for better while accepting that you will inevitably not always be the best is ok. Otherwise you’re delusional and you’ll never get the results you’re after, which is Ferrari’s problem right now.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,284
Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer
Ferrari’s car this year is clearly a major issue. One that needs fixing urgently.
But for the last several years, Ferrari have been comfortably 2nd or 3rd fastest (best) team, usually 2nd, ahead of Red Bull.
But for the last several years, Ferrari have been comfortably 2nd or 3rd fastest (best) team, usually 2nd, ahead of Red Bull.
Actually they started the pre-season testing looking pretty clever aerodynamically, until observers realised how the package worked and how limited its scope for further development was. But while that was still to be seen the other teams (especially the Brackley Boys) went home and had a hard think, bringing fresh design solutions to the track a mere two weeks later. Same with overheating tyres, low-speed circuit performance etc etc. I think THIS is the Maranello weakness and (more than anything else) the Mercedes strength - the speed of solving problems and bringing new design solutions to the car to remove weaknesses. Lewis made an interesting comment after Spa when a journalist asked him about the "good night of celebrations ahead". he said they don't do that. Even after a 1-2 win they go into the debrief and look at what DIDN'T work to see what they can do to make it better. The outcome of that debrief is already being studied by the backroom team before bed on Sunday. He said they celebrate after winning the championship - not before. I suspect it's that ferocity of focus which is the culture introduced by Ross Brawn (read his book!) and built on by Toto Wolfe that is the real "secret" of the Mercedes persistent success.
PDR
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 53
If they’re not winning they replace the team principle. Then the sporting or technical directors. Then the team principle again. Then the head of Ferrari. Then the team principle again!
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 2,407
Originally Posted by PDR1
...right up to the week the other teams started asking the FIA pointed "technical clarification" questions on the subject of fuel flow monitoring strategies, sampling intervals and latencies. Then suddenly in a matter of hours the car plummeted down the time sheets like a signwriter falling off a double-decker bus. Spooky, huh?
Actually they started the pre-season testing looking pretty clever aerodynamically, until observers realised how the package worked and how limited its scope for further development was. But while that was still to be seen the other teams (especially the Brackley Boys) went home and had a hard think, bringing fresh design solutions to the track a mere two weeks later. Same with overheating tyres, low-speed circuit performance etc etc. I think THIS is the Maranello weakness and (more than anything else) the Mercedes strength - the speed of solving problems and bringing new design solutions to the car to remove weaknesses. Lewis made an interesting comment after Spa when a journalist asked him about the "good night of celebrations ahead". he said they don't do that. Even after a 1-2 win they go into the debrief and look at what DIDN'T work to see what they can do to make it better. The outcome of that debrief is already being studied by the backroom team before bed on Sunday. He said they celebrate after winning the championship - not before. I suspect it's that ferocity of focus which is the culture introduced by Ross Brawn (read his book!) and built on by Toto Wolfe that is the real "secret" of the Mercedes persistent success.
PDR
Actually they started the pre-season testing looking pretty clever aerodynamically, until observers realised how the package worked and how limited its scope for further development was. But while that was still to be seen the other teams (especially the Brackley Boys) went home and had a hard think, bringing fresh design solutions to the track a mere two weeks later. Same with overheating tyres, low-speed circuit performance etc etc. I think THIS is the Maranello weakness and (more than anything else) the Mercedes strength - the speed of solving problems and bringing new design solutions to the car to remove weaknesses. Lewis made an interesting comment after Spa when a journalist asked him about the "good night of celebrations ahead". he said they don't do that. Even after a 1-2 win they go into the debrief and look at what DIDN'T work to see what they can do to make it better. The outcome of that debrief is already being studied by the backroom team before bed on Sunday. He said they celebrate after winning the championship - not before. I suspect it's that ferocity of focus which is the culture introduced by Ross Brawn (read his book!) and built on by Toto Wolfe that is the real "secret" of the Mercedes persistent success.
PDR
I link it only to their very high speed and excellent performance of 2019, particularly the latter half.
Since 2010, they got four 2nd places, four 3rd places and one 4th place in the Constructors championship.
Most of those 2nd places were in more recent years to Mercedes dominance.
Ferrari's issues are not linked in any way to Mercedes though so why most of your post is about Mercedes I'm not sure.
I think running way down out of the points in Monza will be what causes heads to roll. And if not Monza, then there is Imola and Mugello too. The embarrassment will be too much and changes will have to be made.
But when they do, they have to allow time for the change to work. They can't just expect a miracle, only to fire the replacement at the end of the year because there was no improvement.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,824
flyer517,
Ability, knowledge and experience moves around and levels up when people move between teams. There is reportedly a lot of poaching and movement between backroom and garage staff between all the teams in “motorsport valley” as people don’t have to move home. Binotto admitted they have a problem attracting people to move to Maranello.
They’ve reportedly just failed to persuade Andy Cowell, who has just left Mercedes, to join them to work on the engine.
Ability, knowledge and experience moves around and levels up when people move between teams. There is reportedly a lot of poaching and movement between backroom and garage staff between all the teams in “motorsport valley” as people don’t have to move home. Binotto admitted they have a problem attracting people to move to Maranello.
They’ve reportedly just failed to persuade Andy Cowell, who has just left Mercedes, to join them to work on the engine.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,284
Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer
Are you implying that Ferrari were using their cheaty-engine for several years then?
Ferrari's issues are not linked in any way to Mercedes though so why most of your post is about Mercedes I'm not sure.
Mercedes have done this and it clearly works. They have a bad weekend and come back stronger, not weaker. If Ferrari are to return to prominence (which I'm sure they will) they need to look at the culture of the competitive team(s) and learn from it. Otherwise all they can ever aspire to is short periods of technical advantage - a few races, but not a championship.
All IMHO of course - YMMV.
PDR
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 160
Perhaps Mercedes inherited the culture form Brawn GP when they bought the team from him? He did not immediately leave the team but stayed for another four seasons and undoubtedly left a fine legacy for Toto Wolff to build on.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 55
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer
Are you implying that Ferrari were using their cheaty-engine for several years then?
Their issue is clearly not only with the engine but they are running such a power deficit that there is no way they can be competitive before 2021, unless permitted some sort of "reset".
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Tottenham
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Bruce No1
As Hamilton is so passionate about black lives being taken, I wonder why he's not campaigning for or wearing T-shirts with comments about the millions dying of starvation in Africa.
Is it simply because this won't generate as much publicity for him?
Is it simply because this won't generate as much publicity for him?
What a silly comparison. Do you pop up in cancer charity events saying 'all diseases matter?'
Millions are starving across the world by the way, reading from your playbook.
When in doubt, what about
