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Old 12th Jun 2018, 13:03
  #6621 (permalink)  
 
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Did Hartley do anything wrong yesterday?

Brundle's analysis seemed accurate. The outside of turn 5 on cold tyres on lap 1 might be over ambitious and precocious. Equally, Stroll seemed to have some steering issues and there was a sniff of left lock that squeezed Hartley into the wall. However, as Brundle said, the space between Stroll and the wall was always going to be, or likely to be, a reducing wedge. So it proved. Judgement issue perhaps rather than technical driving error.
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Old 12th Jun 2018, 13:58
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Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
Did Hartley do anything wrong yesterday?

Brundle's analysis seemed accurate. The outside of turn 5 on cold tyres on lap 1 might be over ambitious and precocious. Equally, Stroll seemed to have some steering issues and there was a sniff of left lock that squeezed Hartley into the wall. However, as Brundle said, the space between Stroll and the wall was always going to be, or likely to be, a reducing wedge. So it proved. Judgement issue perhaps rather than technical driving error.
Perhaps, and I'll respect Martin's views as a general rule. But I always take the general view that unless explicitly proven otherwise first corner and first lap accidents are accidents. Only the meek and mild can avoid them, and the meek&mild fraternity don't win races.

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Old 12th Jun 2018, 19:11
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https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/t...up-racing.html
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 08:11
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The BBC produced an interesting piece yesterday from Jolyon Palmer, raising the possibility that McLaren's repeated failures could drive Alonso out of F1.
It also points out the blindingly obvious: last year, McLaren blamed Honda for all their woes and switched engine supplier. They still can't win a race (or worse can't even finish a race!) with the same engine that Red Bull are doing so well with:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44434168
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 08:50
  #6625 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
The BBC produced an interesting piece yesterday from Jolyon Palmer, raising the possibility that McLaren's repeated failures could drive Alonso out of F1.
It also points out the blindingly obvious: last year, McLaren blamed Honda for all their woes and switched engine supplier. They still can't win a race (or worse can't even finish a race!) with the same engine that Red Bull are doing so well with:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44434168
But is it the same engine? When RB failed to divorce from Renault a couple of years back it was said that they would use the TAG-Heuer-badged Renault engine, but with their own integration components, setup and modifications. I must admit that we haven't heard much about any differences since then, but it is what they originally said. The only other renault engine user is Renault (you don't say!! -Ed) and Alonso in the Mclaren is running as "best of the rest" (no7 in the championship) despite 2 DNFs and slightly better than the two renaults.

Red Bull have Adrian Newey, whereas Mclaren have a history of producing aerodynamic dog's breakfasts. So you wouldn't expect to see them beating RB yet.

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Old 13th Jun 2018, 10:02
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
But is it the same engine? When RB failed to divorce from Renault a couple of years back it was said that they would use the TAG-Heuer-badged Renault engine, but with their own integration components, setup and modifications. I must admit that we haven't heard much about any differences since then, but it is what they originally said. The only other renault engine user is Renault (you don't say!! -Ed) and Alonso in the Mclaren is running as "best of the rest" (no7 in the championship) despite 2 DNFs and slightly better than the two renaults.

Red Bull have Adrian Newey, whereas Mclaren have a history of producing aerodynamic dog's breakfasts. So you wouldn't expect to see them beating RB yet.

PDR
I never did hear much following the announcement that Red Bull had "divorced" Renault and would use Renault "TAG" engines. I don't know how the RB engine differs from the works engine, or how the works Renault engine may differ from the customer Renault engine.
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 12:29
  #6627 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer View Post
I don't know how the RB engine differs from the works engine, or how the works Renault engine may differ from the customer Renault engine.
I thought a recent ruling was that customer engines had to be identical across the board.
AIUI, some teams were running 'last year's' works engine (Ferrari amongst others) but current ruling suggests that that is no longer possible
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 13:12
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
I thought a recent ruling was that customer engines had to be identical across the board.
AIUI, some teams were running 'last year's' works engine (Ferrari amongst others) but current ruling suggests that that is no longer possible
Sorry should have elaborated. I know the internal components are the same, but I meant like the ancillaries and bolt-ons... each team designs (or purchases) its own gearbox as far as I know, so Force India, Williams and Mercedes all have different gearboxes despite having the same engine.

I wonder how much effect that has on parasitic power loss across the manufacturers, and whether RB have a better set than say McLaren who haven't had anywhere near as long to design the rest of the car around the engine parts.
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 14:09
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
I thought a recent ruling was that customer engines had to be identical across the board.
AIUI that was why the RB power unit was branded "TAG-Heuer" rather than Renault - to allow them to have a different config.

AIUI, some teams were running 'last year's' works engine (Ferrari amongst others) but current ruling suggests that that is no longer possible
That is true at the start of a season, but teams may contract to not include in-season upgrades in the initial season cost (ie if there is an upgrade available they may choose to take it taler or not at all to avoid paying extra). Engine suppliers are also allowed some leighway in providing a new upgrade to the works team first before offering it to their customer teams where there are manufacturing capacity issues which prevent delivering a dozen of the new engines at the same time.

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Old 13th Jun 2018, 18:12
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Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer View Post
Sorry should have elaborated. I know the internal components are the same, but I meant like the ancillaries and bolt-ons... each team designs (or purchases) its own gearbox as far as I know, so Force India, Williams and Mercedes all have different gearboxes despite having the same engine.

I wonder how much effect that has on parasitic power loss across the manufacturers, and whether RB have a better set than say McLaren who haven't had anywhere near as long to design the rest of the car around the engine parts.
That's a very good & interesting point. But which begs the question:

If such comparisons are being made between the Renault, err I mean TAG, powered Red Bulls and the Renault factory team, why are questions not being more seriously asked in public about why despite having 'the same engine', Mercedes is right up there, Force India has a half decent car yet Williams have an absolute dog?

We don't hear much about the engines of those latter three, despite their teams wildly differing performances.
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 18:30
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Because it's an open secret that the Williams is an aerodynamic basket case and it would make no difference if it had 2000bhp because it can't deploy even a milk-float's worth without losing the back end.

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Old 17th Jun 2018, 21:19
  #6632 (permalink)  
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Fernando Alonso wins Le Mans 24.
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Old 18th Jun 2018, 00:41
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I'd say it's currently even money that Alonso leaves to go to Indy Car after the season - and if McLaren doesn't get their act together soon the odds will move towards Indy Car. He had a good time at Indy last year and has been a visitor in the Andretti team pit at Indy races this year. Meanwhile, F1 is a young persons game and he's the old man on the grid these days.
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Old 18th Jun 2018, 01:45
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Can we not start a new F1 thread? 'New Formula 1"...
My mobile has always blanked this thread out, complaining of 'too many redirects' for the last four or five years.
Much of this thread being nostalgia about the good old yesteryears could be kept locked for reference somewhere on the site, but surely there is no strong reason to value the record-breaking length of it particularly?
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Old 18th Jun 2018, 15:40
  #6635 (permalink)  
 
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My mobile has always blanked this thread out, complaining of 'too many redirects'
Same situation here.
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Old 18th Jun 2018, 20:36
  #6636 (permalink)  
 
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Same here on my iMac, I had to sneak up on the current page in increments.
It looks like 4+ "dead" pages ahead (I'm on 332 and "last" may be 337)
f
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Old 18th Jun 2018, 20:41
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Originally Posted by fleigle View Post
It looks like 4+ "dead" pages ahead (I'm on 332 and "last" may be 337)
f
No the last listed page is 341 . . .
They obviously didn't fix the phantom page phenomenon when they introduced the 'update'.
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 01:37
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Originally Posted by fleigle View Post
Same here on my iMac, I had to sneak up on the current page in increments.
It looks like 4+ "dead" pages ahead (I'm on 332 and "last" may be 337)
f
Same here but I just hit the refresh key and it will go to the last page successfully.
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 01:40
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My refresh key does not do it. It can take five minutes or more on the iPhone to sneak up in increments, the only way to see new posts.
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 10:26
  #6640 (permalink)  
 
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Red Bull will split with Renault at the end of this season and use Honda engines for the next two years.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/44530950
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