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Old 27th Sep 2017, 08:15
  #6081 (permalink)  
 
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I assume as the leader he is entitled to go for the racing line.
If Seb hadn't pulled across so abruptly he'd have been clear of the accident,


A TV commentator said the same thing about the racing line, but if you roll the video forward towards the first corner, left hand, you will see that SV had then to drift outward to his right to adopt the 'racing line' to enter the corner. Therefore drifting left at the start was NOT to claim the racing line, it was to block MV, pure & simple. That is allowed, as we have seen many times from the Mercedes boys. In this instance, in all innocence, SV didn't know that MV was boxed in. But to 'claim the racing line' it was not.

In F1 & sometimes even on 2 wheels, we see race disrupting incidents at the 1st corner after the start. It is often even a chicane as well. Why oh why do they design tracks in such a manner? Why can the 1st corner not be a constant sweeping bend without abrupt braking and jockeying for position in close proximity, often 3 abreast. The guys are adrenalin filled, fresh tyres, all charged up to get their noses in front ASAP, and senses are not yet up to speed. A whole race can be destroyed in the first 10 seconds. I think the track designs have much to answer for.
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Old 27th Sep 2017, 12:07
  #6082 (permalink)  
 
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How many of us have spent the last few seasons complaining about how dull and boring the races have been? I say let them fight, it is meant to be a battle not a coffee morning.
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Old 27th Sep 2017, 18:59
  #6083 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, but a suicidal 1st corner is not the place. Why not let them get free flowing before all the pushing & shoving.
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Old 27th Sep 2017, 21:39
  #6084 (permalink)  
 
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I have a very vague recollection that a chicane at Silverstone used to be inoperative on the first lap????
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Old 28th Sep 2017, 22:20
  #6085 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
In F1 & sometimes even on 2 wheels, we see race disrupting incidents at the 1st corner after the start. It is often even a chicane as well. Why oh why do they design tracks in such a manner? Why can the 1st corner not be a constant sweeping bend without abrupt braking and jockeying for position in close proximity, often 3 abreast.
In all probability that would just delay the danger zone to the first *tight* corner, and of course there would still be the risk that someone would enter the corner at a speed or on a line that was incompatible with their cold tyres and heavy fuel load.

A significant part of the secondary causes of the Singapore incident was simply that the track was suddenly and unexpectedly wet, so grip levels were unpredictable. Both RBs got lousy starts, and Seb's wasn't much better, so the "natural" separation was removed.

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Old 29th Sep 2017, 10:34
  #6086 (permalink)  
 
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Spa of course is a good example of a tight first corner.

Today's excitement is all about Grosjean's right rear being ripped explosively apart by a jutting drain cover. This being Malaysia's last stand, the circuit will not be receptive to a half-million dollar invoice for a loose grid.
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Old 29th Sep 2017, 11:42
  #6087 (permalink)  
 
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And Hamilton, going, going, gone?

Vegan ( Lewis Hamilton: Could a vegan diet hamper his 'racing edge'? - BBC Sport )
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 09:25
  #6088 (permalink)  
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Vettel with an engine/turbo failure during Q1 and starting from the back of the grid.

More critically he has used up all his engines/turbos so any further changes during this race or the season will attract further grid penalties in the remaining races.

Singapore and Malaysia may have just finished his championship chances.
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 09:47
  #6089 (permalink)  
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Except that Vettel can now take a completely new power unit 'without penalty' as he already starts from the back of the grid.
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 12:15
  #6090 (permalink)  
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That would be true if he had any more engines available, but the one they fitted yesterday was his last and, if the graphic shown by Sky is correct, he has also used all but a single component out of all the other power items such as the MGU-K, MGU-H etc.

https://sports.yahoo.com/ferrari-con...082910803.html

“....Each car is allowed five power units (including the engine, motor generator unit-kinetic (MGU-K), the motor generator unit-heat (MGU-H), the energy store, turbocharger and control electronics) to be used as they see fit for the season. Five of each component are allowed to be used in any combination.

Should they need a further component they will have to contend with one of a number of penalties. A complete new power unit requires a driver to start from the pit lane, while using a sixth element will lead demotion of ten places from their qualifying position at the next race. If a different element requires a sixth (i.e it is not the first component to require a sixth) then a five-place grid penalty will be imposed, but the first time a seventh of any element is required then it's another ten-place penalty. Each subsequent seventh used will again lead to a five-place penalty, and so on.......”

Hamilton reached his limit and took all his penalties at the Belgium Grand Prix - which was a deliberate move by Mercedes to get them out of the way at a race where he wasn’t expected to do well anyway.

But he is now well in the lead in the championship and races are running out for Vettel,he is starting las5 in this race and another engine component change will leave him further back in the few remaining.

Last edited by ORAC; 30th Sep 2017 at 12:28.
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 13:11
  #6091 (permalink)  
 
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It seems that the Gods are punishing Vettel for what the stewards a Singapore refused to.
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 16:18
  #6092 (permalink)  
 
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Except that Vettel can now take a completely new power unit 'without penalty' as he already starts from the back of the grid.
yes except for 1 minor problem. Since he has only used 3 till now any new unit will be his 4th and so allowed without penalty
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 17:12
  #6093 (permalink)  
 
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Orac,

Hamilton had no penalties in the 2017 Belgian GP they were in the 2016 Belgian GP.
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 17:34
  #6094 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sirwa69 View Post
yes except for 1 minor problem. Since he has only used 3 till now any new unit will be his 4th and so allowed without penalty
As I understand it that's not correct. The graphic shown during the qualifying coverage showed Vettel as having already used his full allowance of all the controlled components except the MGU-K (of which he has one more to go).

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Old 30th Sep 2017, 17:43
  #6095 (permalink)  
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My understanding is that SV can now take a complete new (5th) power unit.
As he is already going to have to start last, there is effectively no penalty (except he might have to start from the pit lane).
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Old 30th Sep 2017, 18:15
  #6096 (permalink)  
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Vettel plans new power unit elements and extra grid penalties

“Already facing a start from the back row of the grid for Sunday's Malaysian Grand Prix, Sebastian Vettel is set to incur a number of extra penalties for additional power unit elements.

Vettel was unable to set a time in qualifying after his Ferrari lost drive on its outlap. That was despite a precautionary engine change over lunch following issues at the end of FP3. Ferrari will now take the opportunity to introduce some new components to Vettel's car, since the penalties can't drop him any further back than he already is.

"It would make sense. We will see what we have," Vettel told reporters in Malaysia, saying he wasn't going to dwell on today's misfortune. "I don't believe in good luck or bad luck. We need to understand what happened today and make sure we understand it."

Vettel has already used up his full allocation of ICE, control electronics and turbocharger. Taking a fifth of any of these would hand him a ten-place grid penalty for the race. He's still on his third MGU-H, MGU-K and energy store, so there would be no penalty for changing these parts. And no strategic advantage, either.

The FIA will officially confirm what penalties Ferrari face on Sunday morning.....”
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 03:44
  #6097 (permalink)  
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Gene Haas says that repairs to Grosjean's car cost half-a-million dollars.
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 03:48
  #6098 (permalink)  
 
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As G-CPTN notes, Ferrari can do pretty much anything they want to Vettel's car - no matter how many grid spot penalties they apply, he can't start any worse than last...
As for starting from the pit lane, given his racing luck the last couple races he might prefer that rather than risking involvement in a first lap fracas...
BTW Super VC-10 - what Vettel did at Singapore didn't violate the rules - he was in front and has the right to chose his lane. It may not have been smart or sporting, but it was not against the rules.
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 06:07
  #6099 (permalink)  
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The 'fault' with SV's engine at qualifying yesterday was a build problem by Maranello - not a mistake by the installation crew in Malaysia.
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Old 1st Oct 2017, 07:02
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Now Kimi's engine has a problem going to the grid. Ferrari looking unlikely to score points today.
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