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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 3rd Jul 2012, 18:53
  #1681 (permalink)  
 
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Everything is fine in France too :

France to tackle crushing debt, says French PM Ayrault

Mr Ayrault is outlining the new government's plans to parliament for the next five years


French PM Jean-Marc Ayrault has called on the French people to rally behind the government to tackle a "crushing" and "unprecedented" debt crisis.


Mr Ayrault revised France's economic growth forecasts. He said GDP was likely to grow 0.3% this year, down from 0.5%, and 1.2% in 2013 instead of a previously expected 1.70%.
"The state pays nearly 50bn euros to its creditors annually," Mr Ayrault said, adding that the debt burden was threatening the welfare system and public services.
Mr Ayrault said the aim of the belt-tightening was to have a balanced budget in 2017, adding that between 2007 and 2011, France's debt grew by 600bn euros "to nearly 1,800bn euros today, or 90% of the wealth produced annually in France".


Auditors warned this week that the French government needed to fill a hole of up to 10bn euros in this year's budget to meet targets to cut the deficit.
Last week, it was announced that France's public debt rose by 74bn euros in the year's first quarter, bringing French public debt to 89% of GDP.
Mr Ayrault blamed the country's economic situation on the previous centre-right government of ex-President Nicolas Sarkozy. (There's a surprise ......!
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 19:20
  #1682 (permalink)  
 
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looks like the promises of socialist anti-austerity have run aground on the rocks of reality..

and of course the 130bn stimulus package turned out to be nothing but smoke and mirrors too.

anyone any idea when these clows are going to realise, you're in debt up to your eyeballs, you can't go a spending.
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 17:41
  #1683 (permalink)  
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I had lunch with German friends today, they picked up the bill, told me what to pay as my share. Just before we left I snuck a look at the bill and discovered it was generously loaded in my favour.

I rose to my feet.

"As the only non-German and the representative of Catalunia here" I said, "I'd like to thank the Germans for generously subsidising us - as usual".

Roars of laughter from round the table.

(I should have said they are very nice Germans with a sense of humour who all think the euro is the worst thing to happen to Germany ever.)

Last edited by OFSO; 4th Jul 2012 at 17:42.
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 19:07
  #1684 (permalink)  
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Tell me again why we are in this organisation?

This looks like a joke.....

The Commentator: The Compleat Death of Sovereignty

The European Union is snatching our sovereignty, bit by bit. Ever wonder how it's managed it?

Till you read this.........

EUreferendum: They NEVER give up
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 19:18
  #1685 (permalink)  
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I imagine that this, or similar, surely must have been posted?

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Old 4th Jul 2012, 21:48
  #1686 (permalink)  
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Tell me again why we are in this organisation?

Because years ago Certain Countries said we should be, and Certain Stupid British Politicians said yes, and Certain Other Stupid Politicians didn't keep an eye on what was Going On.

And now Certain Other Even More Stupid Politicians are frightened to get us out of it.

Very simple, really. It's what is called "Democracy". The People get what the People Don't Want, and when they Don't Want it even more, the People still get it.

Screwed, that is.
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 22:33
  #1687 (permalink)  
 
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Not to mention that Ted Heath lied about it.
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 03:06
  #1688 (permalink)  
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Total recall

Read a few comments, some more interesting than others.

But an interesting feeling came to me... I felt like I was in a PPRuNe time machine.
Stuckgear giving links from the Telegraph saying EU or Euro (make your choice, it depends on the day) is dead, armaggedon is for tomorrow...
I still don't know if this is the hamsterwheel effect, or if really this thread has found the time machine, but it takes me year back stucked with you.

You cannot repeat again and again the same thing, it doesn't work anymore (I am not saying it has worked anyway...).

Breath a bit, open the windows.

Euro more integrated is happening. UK more isolated is happening too.
This crisis is about to do a victim, the one that is loosing its influence, loosing part of itself, loosing its financial center, is in recession, has a skyrocketing total public debt, and we are all pretending we don't see?

Stuck in time, that's what it looks like, turning around looking for itself.
Euro is not waiting, and is following its integration, the ones commenting are not the ones making history.

David Cameron has urged "tactical and strategic patience" over plans by eurozone economies to set up a closer financial union, instead of rushing to a referendum on the issue.
BBC News - David Cameron urges 'tactical patience' over eurozone integration




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Old 5th Jul 2012, 08:23
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How come I can't when you can?
Precisely what I was going to say but BandAide did it for me, and no doubt for many others who feel the same.
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 08:52
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two items of interest from the fatherland et al.


Tuesday 3 July 2012



The German ARD television station last night had a very interesting documentary entitled The Great Euro Swindle, reconstructing how Europe's politicians deceived each other over the euro.

The euro crisis, we are told, is a story of fraud and deception - all members, even the Germans, are implicated.

According to our informant, it shows that Bundesbank (Tietmeyer, Issing) warned Kohl and Waigel that Italy and Belgium were not in compliance with the rules of EMU. Also Regling as director general in the EU commission knew about this. There were interviews with those bitter old men.

When Greek wanted to join the euro, the analysts Bundesbank could see that the data were apparently falsified. One member of the Bundesbank board went public but, as a result, got a severe dressing down from Hans Eichel.

Then Eichel and Schröder decided that Germany also would be in non compliance with the rules. Senior officials in Bundesbank and the leading politicians thus deliberately told lies to the population, who now must foot the bill.

A programme of this nature should have been dynamite in the German political debate, except for the fact that it was broadcast late, between 22.45-23.30 local time. Today's newspapers have not (so far) commented on programme.

Germans do not favour political union

Wednesday 4 July 2012
A survey published by the magazine Stern, with details online via here, has 74 percent of the 1,004 Germans polled against the idea of a United States of Europe. Only 22 percent support the idea of abandoning the nation state.

The poll, carried out by the Forsa organisation, also has 63 percent against the idea of an elected EU president, with only 33 percent in favour, and 59 percent oppose the transfer of further financial powers from the Bundesbank to EU institutions. Only 36 percent are in favour.

As to eurobonds, these also got a huge thumbs-down, with 73 percent against, as opposed to a mere 17 percent supporting the idea. Yet, despite all this, 54 percent of Germans still think that introducing the euro was the right thing to do. And, looking to the future, 69 percent of those polled agreed that there should be a referendum of there is any further transfer of sovereignty to Brussels.

This conveys a much stronger message than the a poll published this weekend by Welt am Sonntag. That had 43 percent of respondents supporting a United States of Europe, with 51 percent speaking out against further political and economic integration.

Similar proportions were found in relation to giving Brussels more financial powers – with 43 percent for and 52 percent against.

The Welt survey might have made a referendum look winnable to Merkel, and may have contributed to her new determination to press ahead with a treaty. If that was the case, this current poll is a setback, perhaps indicating a hardening of opinion against the project.

Meanwhile, back in the UK, the europhile New Statesman asserts that the failure of politicians in the UK on all sides to make the "positive case for Europe" is one of the reasons why the debate about a referendum has now reached fever pitch.

An "in/out" referendum, it claims, can be won, but "politicians who favour remaining in and pushing back the UKIP tide must start to make the positive case".

However, this may be a tad optimistic, to put it mildly. And if sentiment is hardening in Germany, where support for "Europe" is traditionally strong, it seems unlikely that the British public will soften its views. The europhiles are in for a harder fight than they are letting on.


Last edited by stuckgear; 5th Jul 2012 at 08:58.
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 09:12
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Of course it had to come, because you can't finance 'generous retirement benefits' from nowhere, and this is the true face of socialism, screwing the people who've worked hard to build up assets so that the feckless and parasitic can continue their life of state-subsidised idleness. And just look at the fat smug smirking face accompanying the article. You can bet he won't be paying those tax rates on his holiday homes!

Just to compound the felony, the tax on rental income is backdated. Still, anyone who trusted the French, particularly a socialist French politician, needs ther head examined.


Francois Hollande announces French tax grab on holiday homes

British owners of holiday homes in France are to be hit with punitive tax rises under plans announced by the new Socialist government.

President François Hollande is seeking to tax the better-off Photo: AFP

By Henry Samuel, Paris

9:49PM BST 04 Jul 2012
1331 Comments


Approximately 200,000 Britons own second homes in areas such as the Dordogne and other parts of France, particularly those serviced by budget airlines.

Now, however, holiday home owners find themselves in the sights of President François Hollande as he seeks to tax the better-off to reduce France's large budget deficit.

On Wednesday (July 4th), the French government announced it was to increase taxes on foreign-owned second homes. Tax on rental income would rise from 20 per cent to 35.5 per cent, and capital gains tax on property sales would rise from 19 per cent to 34.5 per cent. The extra in each case is being labelled a "social charge".

Last edited by Tableview; 5th Jul 2012 at 09:14.
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 09:45
  #1692 (permalink)  
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This tax was originally proposed last year, but withdrawn due to, amongst other things, probably infringing single market anti-discrimination EU regulations.

No doubt any complaints will be ignored, as will any subsequent appeals to the EU and judgements.

Last edited by ORAC; 5th Jul 2012 at 09:47.
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 10:21
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Of course it had to come, because you can't finance 'generous retirement benefits' from nowhere, and this is the true face of socialism, screwing the people who've worked hard to build up assets so that the feckless and parasitic can continue their life of state-subsidised idleness. And just look at the fat smug smirking face accompanying the article. You can bet he won't be paying those tax rates on his holiday homes!

Just to compound the felony, the tax on rental income is backdated. Still, anyone who trusted the French, particularly a socialist French politician, needs ther head examined.


Well that's going to screw the french tourist industry. now, as a question quite a few french people own property that is rented out to tourists, from the gite to the campsite to the ski resort apartment, so are the french themselves going to punitively taxed for building up a personal asset base ?

and if it is only applied to foreign owners of french property, then would that not be against the very basis of the EU itself ? ie freedom of movement, freedom of asset ownership across the EU therefore to impliment a tax targetting specific EU nationals would in fact be illegal under EU legislation?

no matter which it is cut the socialists just can't get to grips with the fact that socialism always runs out of outher peoples money.

Hollands anti-austerity is heading for the rocks and no matter what juggling of the deckchairs happens the track remains unchanged
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 10:25
  #1694 (permalink)  
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Switching to Spain with which I am more familiar, we have a lot of non-resident holiday home owners down here from France and Germany who live full time in their "holiday homes", who don't pay the same taxes we residents do, never bother to register their cars here, who use the excellent medical facilities at a cheap rate (don't know much about this fiddle but I've heard the story from two different German doctors practicing locally and to whom mentioning a German "tourist" is like waving a red rag at a bull).

If the Spanish authorities drove around noting who was here "full time" and demanded they register here and pay the same amount that legal residents did there would be a lot more in the coffers.

Probably the most insulting thing is that these second home owners who abuse the system have the money to buy a second home in a foreign country: most Spanish don't.

Make the same laws for everyone: isn't that what the EU was about ? Oh, sorry......
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 10:30
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Make the same laws for everyone
that's something I've never been able to understand (why they aren't the same, that is). Like different taxes to 'attract investors' - well, lure them from the neighbouring countries?
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 10:37
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who don't pay the same taxes we residents do
How much do they pay OFSO ? Where I live in France - an expensive ski area - second homes pay about three times more than residents.

I don't know if this applies nationally or varies by location.
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 11:00
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There are a whole slew of regulations which every foreigner from Germany and France and Russia knows how to avoid. This is Spain, remember ? Basically it profits you to be a permanent non-resident, declare your income tax elsewhere (or not at all), don't pay your car tax, and live here in bliss. Cheap food, cheap wine, and lax authorities. Until the day comes what you want to sell, and then you get hit ! E.g.:

Residents can sell their homes here, buy a new one within a period of plus or minus two years, the first sale is not subject to CGT because they are dealing in their principal residence. Non-residents under same conditions are liable to CGT.

And residents who have lived in their home for a certain period (I think ten years, varies within autonomous regions) and are over 60 years of age are also not liable to CGT even if they don't buy another house but say move into rental accomodation. Non-residents are liable.

I believe the first instance also applies to residents selling up and moving to another country to buy a new home there. A German non-resident holiday home owner getting old and moving back to Germany (as they do) would have to pay full CGT on the declared amount.

But until old age or wanting to move strikes, all of those 1.5 million foreigners living here "on holiday" are doing fine for themselves (although of course the situation is like the U.K.'s illegal immigrants: nobody really knows who is in Spain on what status.)

Last edited by OFSO; 5th Jul 2012 at 11:01.
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Old 5th Jul 2012, 22:26
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Thomas Jefferson said: “Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not”.
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Old 6th Jul 2012, 04:22
  #1699 (permalink)  
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This thread: a sick version of the time machine written by Stephen King

Let's pretend we are not here to say the same thing again and again, let's pretend this is not a EU bashing thread, let's pretend one moment it is a real EU thread:
News this week, the huge job less rate in Spain has decreased for the first time.
Alright now go back to your time machine (understand stuck in time) hamsterwheel EU bashing, I am getting out before I throw up.



Happy groundhog day.
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Old 6th Jul 2012, 04:42
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Let's pretend we are not here to say the same thing again and again, let's pretend this is not a EU bashing thread, let's pretend one moment it is a real EU thread:
News this week, the huge job less rate in Spain has decreased for the first time.
Shock, horror, the rate of job losses slows in the holiday season when more people take temporary work in that sector.

And you think that it's, somehow, good news when you know the rate will rocket up again after the holiday season is over?

Take your head out of the sand and look at the big picture instead of grasping at the few straws of "not quite so bad" news there is out there and trying to use that to paint a picture that is different to the reality of the Eurozone. Of course, if you actually lived here you would know what the reality is, but that's a side issue.
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