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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 10th Jun 2012, 04:03
  #1401 (permalink)  
 
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Man, I gotta save this one.

I suspect most of people commenting here are mainly not from Eurozone, you should then focus first on the debt that your respective countries have before getting all excited watching your neighbors.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 07:42
  #1402 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect most of people commenting here are mainly not from Eurozone, you should then focus first on the debt that your respective countries have before getting all excited watching your neighbors.
and of course, living and working in Beijing is.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 07:50
  #1403 (permalink)  
 
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 07:55
  #1404 (permalink)  
 
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If the Spanish banks are so screwed they need a loan from the EU (let's be honest, it's the Spanish GOVERNMENT that needs the money to prop things up) then can someone explain how they'll pay that loan back? And how, pray tell, will this affect the balance of payments for other countries, since they will be the ones throwing more money away, and how long will it be before there is more than just some angry mumbling about the tax euros of the people in other EU countries being used to prop up yet another country whilst these people have their pensions cut, salaries cut, services cut, etc.........


Oh, 1 week until the Greek elections. We'll see what happens after that. Should get interesting.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 08:15
  #1405 (permalink)  
 
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be careful HB, someone of a slightly 'fragile' disposition may report that your above post is abusive.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 08:20
  #1406 (permalink)  
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then can someone explain how they'll pay that loan back

With more money from the ECB/EU, of course. Really it's so obvious, Hellsbrink, KAG will tell you there's plenty of cash floating around.....
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 08:28
  #1407 (permalink)  
 
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can someone explain how they'll pay that loan back? And how, pray tell, will this affect the balance of payments for other countries, since they will be the ones throwing more money away, and how long will it be before there is more than just some angry mumbling about the tax euros of the people in other EU countries being used to prop up yet another country whilst these people have their pensions cut, salaries cut, services cut, etc.........
yep.. it'll be paid back by 'anti-austerity' spend, spend, tax, tax, spend, tax, tax.. policies. because even though it's the very method that got countires into the mess they are in, it's still the way forward. apparently!

of course, levels of taxation are stifling economies, but thats better brushed under the carpet. some don't like truth getting in the way of an ideology!
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 09:47
  #1408 (permalink)  
 
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KAG will tell you there's plenty of cash floating around....
Other peoples cash, that is!
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 09:49
  #1409 (permalink)  
 
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anti-austerity terminé in France?

socialist policies meet the hard wall of reality? again !

Spend, spend, tax, tax, spend spend doesn't work when there's no money left ?

Pressure on Hollande to abandon anti-austerity stance - Telegraph

As the first round of voting in France’s parliamentary elections takes place, François Hollande’s tax-and-spend stance is expected to help his Socialist Party and its Left-wing allies win a majority in the National Assembly.

The past few days have seen the president, who ousted Nicolas Sarkozy, the former president, last month, make good on promises to cut the retirement age in France to 60 from 62 for people who started work at 18, a move that goes against austerity efforts across the Western world.
However, it is expected that Mr Hollande will be promptly told to change course when the Cour des Comptes, the body that audits France’s public accounts, reports to him on the nation’s finances — as requested — on June 19, just two days after the voting finishes.
The president will likely be told to cut expenditure, a strategy “at odds with his socialist political platform”, according to Dominique Barbet, an economist at French bank BNP Paribas.
Some believe that Hollande will ask for more time, pushing back targets to cut France’s deficit.
“This date was not chosen by chance,” said Mr Barbet. “The Cour des Comptes has already been critical of the magnitude of public spending.
“An adjustment of the economic policy targets is thus likely to occur very quickly, right after the elections. The financial crisis offers no time for hesitation.”
as an aside:

Meanwhile, Mr Hollande’s labour minister, Michel Sapin, responded to a rise in the French unemployment rate to 10pc with a pledge to “make layoffs so expensive for companies that they are not worth it”.
What planet do these people live on ?

do they think that companies make layoffs and reduce output man hours for fun ?

so, constrain a company by making it too expensive to lay off staff and constrain them to uneconomic employment numbers is going to result in one outcome, even more people out of work, lower GDP higer unemployment, greater tax revenue losses and increased welfare costs.

unless of course, there is government subsidy to prevent layoffs, which of course results in a demand for bigger tax take to pay for it, further stifling the economy with bigger taxation levels.

WTF is up with these people. A definition of insanity is to keep repeating a demonstrated failed action and expecting a different outcome.



Last edited by stuckgear; 10th Jun 2012 at 09:57.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 09:51
  #1410 (permalink)  
 
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Other peoples cash, that is!
That's exactly how it works, the problem is that these people don't consider the longterm result. They just keep borrowing more to stave off disaster.

BBC News - Messy Spanish rescue

Last edited by Tableview; 10th Jun 2012 at 10:58.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 11:50
  #1411 (permalink)  
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After a pre-lunch glass of wine, the solution has come to me:

ABOLISH MONEY !

Blindingly simple, isn't it.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 12:50
  #1412 (permalink)  
 
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[quote] stuckgear
yep.. it'll be paid back by 'anti-austerity' spend, spend, tax, tax, spend, tax, tax..apparently!

of course, levels of taxation are stifling economies, but thats better brushed under the carpet. some don't like truth getting in the way of an ideology!
policies. because even though it's the very method that got countires into the mess they are in, it's still the way forward.


This sorta blows " that theory " out of the water ;

Estonia to Krugman: Y

" A few facts about the thumbnail-sized Baltic nation:
• In a 2006 State of World Liberty Index review of 159 countries based on “economic and personal freedoms,” Estonia ranked first.
• As of 2010, it boasted—by far—the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio of all countries in the eurozone.
• It’s the eurozone’s only country to report budget surpluses for two years running.
• Its economy is growing faster than any other nation in the EU.
“It’s refreshing to see politicians barking back at their theory-addled critics like standup comics smacking down a petulant heckler.”
Estonian austerity (Esterity?) programs, as well as the fact that the country has adopted a Friedmanesque flat tax since 1994, would seem to be responsible for at least a few of these glittering statistics. Yet this is highly uncomfortable for economists who make their living by urging statist intervention and deficit spending. "

Never did like Krugman, too much the " I am God " type Ivory Tower academic, and the tower is left leaning.............But if the Estonian model was implemented, too many of his ilk and politicos would have to get a real job.




Last edited by TZ350; 10th Jun 2012 at 12:50.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 12:55
  #1413 (permalink)  
 
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Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has hailed a decision by eurozone finance ministers to help Spain shore up its struggling banks as a victory for the European common currency.
"It was the credibility of the euro that won," he told reporters.
On Saturday, the eurozone ministers agreed to lend Madrid up to 100bn euros ($125bn; £80bn) to help banks hit by bad property loans.
The US and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) also welcomed the move.
Mr Rajoy told a news conference in Madrid that efforts by his centre-right government to restore Spain's public had avoided a wider state bailout.
"If we had not done what we have done in the past five months, the proposal yesterday would have been a bailout of the kingdom of Spain," he said.
The rescue, Mr Rajoy added, would speed up the "flow of credit loans to families, to small and medium enterprises, to self-employed workers".
"The solidity of Spain's financial system won, the credibility of the euro won," he said, and vowed to press ahead with structural economic reforms.
Jees ........... can I have some of what this guy's been smoking?
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 13:15
  #1414 (permalink)  
 
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Jees ........... can I have some of what this guy's been smoking?
Crack or EUrophilia.. both will lead to ruin, i assure you !
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 13:28
  #1415 (permalink)  
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Do I hear rumblings from senior Spanish army officers about "having to put a stop to this nonsence" ? Only 30 years since the last attempted coup d'etat.... (the October 1982 one that's never mentioned today, not the 1981 one).

Last edited by OFSO; 10th Jun 2012 at 13:56.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 13:34
  #1416 (permalink)  
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Excellent little article in the Grauniad, especially the last 3 paragraphs.

Expect some pointed demands for renegotiation by Ireland. After all, if the Spanish bank debt isn't tied to demands on the Spanish government, why should the Irish?

It also makes the chances of Syriza getting more votes likely as voters go for the party most serious about renegotiation....

The Week: Spain’s soft bailout: ‘Us too,’ say Ireland and Greece

Grauniad: Spain's bank bailout will not assuage the need for strong economic measures

...........It's not just the economic road ahead that looks paved with obstacles, either. The politics of helping the Spaniards will be tricky, too. If it is true that, as Spain's economy minister, Luis De Guindos, suggested, Spain will face few of the harsh economic conditions imposed on other recipients of eurozone bailout funds, politicians and indeed citizens in Ireland, Portugal and, critically, Greece, will be infuriated. All three countries have cut wages, slashed spending and sold off public assets to meet the terms of their rescue loans. In doing so, they have watched unemployment rocket, and social distress multiply.

Germany and other eurozone countries will argue that Spain, too, has taken radical action to slim down the state and liberalise labour markets. Time is also of the essence, and pumping the money straight into the Spanish bank bailout find, the FROB, may be the neatest way to forestall a full-blown credit crunch. But if Spain is to receive up to €100m without facing the humiliation of being supervised by the troika of the European commission, the IMF and the ECB, any new government chosen in Greece next weekend, even if it is led by a pro-austerity party, will be banging on Angela Merkel's door demanding a better deal. It's going to be a long, hot summer in the eurozone.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 14:32
  #1417 (permalink)  
 
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A thought-provoking piece of news in the Torygraph.

Debt crisis: Worries over market reaction as Spain bank bailout wins broad support - Telegraph

and a couple of special points.

EU sources said there was a preference to channel money to Spain through the ESM, rather than the EFSF. Under the ESM, an approval rate of 90pc or less is needed to trigger aid, and the fund also has more flexibility in how it operates
Finland is reported to want collateral from Spain if the country receives aid through the EFSF
I can understand that the Eurocreeps want to use the more flexible and less-open-to-scrutiny ESM option, however very surprised that Finland is (allowed ) to still (supposedly ) want security against loans. I had believed that this had been squashed by the Commission some months ago. If it hasn't then I am encouraged to see that not all governments are following sheep-like down the ever-steeper path to inexorable Euro-integration so well critiqued by Daniel Hannan some days ago.

Last edited by AlpineSkier; 10th Jun 2012 at 14:33.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 14:37
  #1418 (permalink)  
 
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I guess that would depend on the Finnish "constitution", AS, since even EU rules cannot overrule something like that (hence the issues surrounding the German constitution).
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 14:54
  #1419 (permalink)  
 
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Well that's true to some extent hb, but I also think it depends whether there are frequent challenges to the constitution as there are in Germany ( Does Finland have a constitution ? ) .Having said that however, even the BVG ( Constitutional Court ) seems to be taking the political mood into account in its judgements, as some recent ones have come out more conciliatory towards the position of the government than strict application of the constitution ( GG ) would allow.

Last edited by AlpineSkier; 10th Jun 2012 at 14:57.
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Old 10th Jun 2012, 15:07
  #1420 (permalink)  
 
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True, but it only needs one person to challenge the decisions and the whole house of cards collapses.


Time will tell
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