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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

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EU Politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 24th Jul 2013, 16:53
  #3401 (permalink)  
 
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Gosh KAG, while you manage to laud the EU and condemn the US, you ignore the EU's own figures and quote instead CIA estimates.

hypocrite.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 05:28
  #3402 (permalink)  
KAG
 
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OFSO, you just got it wrong, that's all. Reallity is the world invests in France, like it or not. I understand your feelings and the hearsays you have heard, but those are not facts, facts are on my side. I agree concerning Catalunia though.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 09:36
  #3403 (permalink)  
 
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Well, The Transit van factory in Southampton is no more. Ford has moved production to Turkey and there are no more Fords produced in the UK anymore.

Ford have moved production to a country that has a free trade agreement with the EU but, does not have to abide by all the oppressive bureaucracy (Acquis Communitaire) that makes labour costs so high. Over 700 jobs gone. So arguments that the UK would be worse off outside the EU and not all correct. Turkey has also one of the fastest growing aviation markets in the world and has a seat at many of the world bodies such as ICAO, where it helps make the rules that the EC 'cuts and pastes' The ability of EU member states to represent themselves at these bodies are being steadily eroded, with the EC giving itself competency to represent members states itself. The likes of Norway, Switzerland and Turkey are doing fine thank you very much and the UK needs to follow as soon as possible and get itself extricated from this socialist experiment of spending other people's money and bankrupting a generation.

Last edited by Widger; 26th Jul 2013 at 09:37.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 10:16
  #3404 (permalink)  
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Are you saying that if UK had a very low income work force like the one in Turkey, country with so many issues including poverty, outside EU, it would be better?
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 10:44
  #3405 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KAG View Post
Reallity is the world invests in France, like it or not.
KAG,

I was rather surprised, and sceptical, by your claims that France had such a high rate of inward investment, so I did a bit of Googling.

And guess what. Hands down, I have to acknowledge that you are correct. This is an interesting article discussing the ‘paradox’ of foreign investment in France.

France defies critics with foreign investment paradox | Reuters

As this article makes clear, though, there’s a bit more to the story than meets the eye. Part of France’s desirability to overseas investors can be attributed to attractive start up packages and tax breaks. These make France attractive for inward investors in the short term, but longer term it is still seen as an unattractive location. Most of the investment is in real estate and acquisitions rather than greenfield projects. French business actually invested more overseas than non-French businesses invested in France. And perhaps most significantly, a lot of the data pre-dates Hollande’s presidency……..
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 11:27
  #3406 (permalink)  
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Yes Andy s, that's right.

Thank you anyway for having a balanced viewpoint, what has always been hard to find on JB.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 11:43
  #3407 (permalink)  
 
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Ford have moved production to a country that has a free trade agreement with the EU but, does not have to abide by all the oppressive bureaucracy (Acquis Communitaire) that makes labour costs so high.
I used to work in the motor industry for numerous Tier 1 component suppliers and have to say that the Transit plant was the most run-down factory I ever visited ( internationally).

Since it was such a dump - with correspondingly high refurbishment costs - and the land was probably very valuable for redevelopment, I can't imagine that a positive finance plan for continued production was possible, irrespective of where the output might be transferred to.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 11:50
  #3408 (permalink)  
 
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Part of France’s desirability to overseas investors can be attributed to attractive start up packages and tax breaks. These make France attractive for inward investors in the short term, but longer term it is still seen as an unattractive location. Most of the investment is in real estate and acquisitions rather than greenfield projects. French business actually invested more overseas than non-French businesses invested in France. And perhaps most significantly, a lot of the data pre-dates Hollande’s presidency……..
And there's the hard realities of unions..

Goodyear?s French Nightmare | TIME.com

If you want to know what an unforgiving place France can be for doing business, especially in difficult economic times, ask Goodyear, the U.S. tire maker.

Since 2007, it has been trying to reconfigure its plant in Amiens, in northern France, which makes low-end tires for passenger vehicles and farm equipment, and has been losing about $80 million per year. But every attempt to change working hours, or seek voluntary redundancies – including as part of a sale – has been met with fierce, and highly effective, resistance. One militant labor union at the plant has essentially managed to veto all management’s proposals, often over the objections of other, more moderate unions.

On Thursday, the inevitable happened: Goodyear’s French management announced that it planned to shut down the plant altogether, with the loss of 1,173 jobs. “Closing the plant is the only possible option after five years of fruitless discussions,” Goodyear’s French director, Henry Dumortier, said in a statement

Goodyear’s announcement isn’t the end of the story, and in fact, might be just the beginning of a new one. That’s because in France, where the unemployment rate has been rising for the past consecutive 19 months and now totals about 10.5% of the workforce, layoffs have become the top item on the political agenda, with the government of President François Hollande becoming increasingly involved in trying to block even private companies from cutting staff. Late last year, a succession of ministers attacked a decision by the steel maker Arcelor Mittal to lay off workers at a blast furnace in a case that dominated the headlines for weeks. This week, the Minister of Industrial Renewal, Arnault Montebourg, signaled that the Goodyear case was now a hot national political issue, saying he wanted “to bring everyone around a negotiating table” in order to find a solution other than closure. Adding more spice to the tale is the fact that Hollande actually visited the Goodyear Amiens plant during his presidential election campaign last spring, in a show of support for the workers.


CEO of U.S. Tire Company Gets into Fight with All of France | TIME.com

What’s French for “cat fight”? Ask American businessman and would-be industrial investor Maurice Taylor, who has provoked la France entière by claiming the “French workforce gets paid high wages but works only three hours.” In doing so, Taylor mockingly dismissed French government invitations to invest in a struggling tire factory in northern France.

“How stupid do you think we are?” Taylor asked in a letter sent to French Industrial Renewal Minister Arnaud Montebourg, who had asked the CEO of the Titan International tire company to invest in a money-losing Goodyear plant in Amiens. The notoriously hard-edged Taylor maintained the factory suffers from the same lame work ethic, coddled labor force, union domination and protection of feckless politicians he seems to see plaguing the wider French economy.

“You can keep the so-called workers. Titan has no interest in the Amiens North factory,” Taylor said in a double-barrel missive revealed by the French media Feb. 20. “Titan is going to buy a Chinese tire company or an Indian one, pay less than one euro per hour and ship all the tires France needs.”
It should be mentioned that from the article this is also cited:


Statistics compiled by international organizations routinely find French workers among the most productive in the world in terms of GDP per hours worked. Numbers from 2011 rank, French employees seventh globally in per hour productivity—three places (but less than 3% behind) the U.S. workforce. French labor productivity per hour actually exceeds that of Germany, the U.K., and the U.S. when calculated in adjusted euro figures. That reputation-defying efficiency has also helped make France the ninth-largest recipient of foreign direct investment in 2011 with $40.9 billion—third among European Union members. Not bad for a place where everybody supposedly takes lunch breaks and talks all day.


Undoubtedly, the French workforce contains talented and hardworking individuals, that are not only creative, but progressive and entreprenurial.. I know a few French small business owners that not only work hard and take financial risks to see business development. The biggest hindrance to france it seems is more political, aside of course from being tied to a currency that the French have no control over and the associated debt problems in the Eurozone.

Laissez-faire indeed!


Last edited by stuckgear; 26th Jul 2013 at 12:14.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 12:05
  #3409 (permalink)  
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the hearsays you have heard,

Which are from French and British individuals and couples who are or were resident in France (unlike you) with whom I have enjoyed a glass of wine and who have told me of their problems working and investing in France.

Well, I suppose they were all telling lies.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 12:26
  #3410 (permalink)  
KAG
 
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I don't know about that OFSO, I guess the individual stories are true, why they shouldn't be? And we can find exceptions to any rule do we? Important thing is to take some time, walk a few steps back and look at the big picture, which might be different than individual events.
Meanwhile, if everything I was told, including on JB, were true, then the world wouldn't be called the world.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 12:44
  #3411 (permalink)  
 
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also in the news..

The President of France is an arsehole


IT is now legal to insult the President of France who, by the way, is a massive t.wa.t.

France’s highest court ruled that special legal protection should not be given to the country’s dickish, bum-faced head of state.
Francois Hollande, the current president, welcomed the ruling like the spineless turd-bucket that he is.

The case was brought after someone insulted Hollande’s predecessor Nicolas Sarkozy, probably by calling him a gurning, pint-sized fcuknugget.

Last edited by stuckgear; 26th Jul 2013 at 12:47.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 13:21
  #3412 (permalink)  
 
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KAG,

The amount of people below the poverty line in the UK is nearly the same as in Turkey (percentage wise) the difference is, the UK has to deal with EU Bureaucracy such as the working time directive etc, which increase production costs and hamper investment. Turkey is attracting huge investment, has a growth rate that outstrips the whole of the EU28 and I didn't see much poverty or deprivation there in 2012, just a nation of proud independent people, in charge oftheir own destiny not being dictated to by French Socialists, German Christian Democrats and ex-communists.
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Old 26th Jul 2013, 14:10
  #3413 (permalink)  
 
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when it comes to politicians and bureaucrats is there such a thing as ex-communist?

Last edited by stuckgear; 28th Jul 2013 at 08:57.
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Old 28th Jul 2013, 08:26
  #3414 (permalink)  
 
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France world-leader in social spending

Le Figaro publishes OECD report showing that France uses 33% of its GNP for social spending. It's too long to translate, but the graph gives you the most important facts except that Denmark is no 2 with 30.8 % and Sweden no 3 with 28.6%.

Interesting to see that only Britain, Germany and Greece have reduced social outgoings between 2009-2013 although for different reasons: Germany has increased employment, thus increasing GNP and reducing numbers receiving unemployment benefit whilst Britain has cut benefits/tightened access. Greece has reduced for obvious reasons.

La France, championne des dépenses sociales
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Old 29th Jul 2013, 16:15
  #3415 (permalink)  
KAG
 
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Yes if you don't work, you'll have more money (all your life) than a worker with an entry level job, plus full medical insurance.
Something is wrong. Hopefully French in the vast majority are proud to work, but we have a huge social immigration who prefer not working, that's a fact.
It has to change.
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Old 30th Jul 2013, 08:39
  #3416 (permalink)  
 
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France: bad news on the tax front for 2014

Le gouvernement planche sur une hausse d'impôt des plus riches en 2014

Comment sera financée la réforme des retraites

Hell, this is not looking good. Just in one day's news, two different reports of different taxes that Hollande is looking to increase because of a big hole in the national accounts. Whatever increases are decided will be in addition to a rise in TVA (VAT for Brits !) already planned for 2014.

The top article talks of a tax aimed at the rich ( i didn't read the whole article, since I'm not rich ) which seems bone-headed to me. Why are politicians too stupid to learn ? I make this comment because the various Socialist flag-ship taxes which floated Hollande to power ( punitive 75% tax on salaries over E 1 million, extra taxes on second home sales ) have been shown to have reduced tax-income because:

a) Many companies moved their top-earners overseas ( UK, CH and B all say thank you ).
b) Number of second home sales decreased dramatically.

Trying to be objective (yes, honestly ! ) this looks like economic nonsense. When will this government realise that ever higher taxes on a diminishing tax-base is not the answer and that they need to reduce the value of benefits as well as cut the number of people taking these benefits.

Unfortunately I see a 0.01% chance of this happening with Hollande and probably only a 5% chance with any other government unless somebody has an epiphany like Gerhard Schroeder when he turned his back on a lifetime of socialist policies and introduced the very, very tough social measures collectively called "Agenda 2010 " in W Germany.

He did this late in the term of his government when his chances of winning the next election were practically zero, so you could speculate that he finally abandoned party dogma to do the right thing for the health of the nation.

Last edited by AlpineSkier; 30th Jul 2013 at 08:46.
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Old 30th Jul 2013, 08:43
  #3417 (permalink)  
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I make this comment because the various Socialist flag-ship taxes which floated Hollande to power ( punitive 75% tax on salaries over E 1 million, extra taxes on second homes ) have all been shown to have reduced tax-income
Laffer Curve
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Old 30th Jul 2013, 08:56
  #3418 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC

You need to send that to the following addresses: I think it would be new to them.

Le palais de l'Élysée
Attn: M F. Hollande- Président de la République
55 rue du Faubourg-Saint-Honoré
Paris 75008
France


Ministère du budget, des comptes publics et de la fonction publique
Attn:M P. Moscovici- Ministre des finances
139, rue de Bercy
75572 Paris Cedex 12
France

Last edited by AlpineSkier; 30th Jul 2013 at 08:58.
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Old 30th Jul 2013, 09:11
  #3419 (permalink)  
 
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Bank of Cyprus: ponctions de 47,5%

The Central Bank of Cyprus has accepted that depositors having more than E 100,000 in the Bank of Cyprus will forfeit 49.5% of sums above that level as their contribution to refinancing the Cypriot financial system.
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Old 31st Jul 2013, 14:31
  #3420 (permalink)  
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Eurozone faces £9.6bn hole in Greek finances, warns IMF

The eurozone must plug a £9.6bn black hole in Greek finances and move more quickly to write-off a "substantial" chunk of the country's £282bn debt, the International Monetary Fund has warned.

The IMF's fourth assessment of the Greek bailout programme identifies a €10.9bn "financing gap" over the next two years and urges the eurozone to take losses on loans made to Greece in order to lift it out of a debt trap. As well as finding the extra financing of €4.4bn in 2014 and 6.5bn in 2014, the IMF is asking the eurozone to find additional debt relief for Greece worth some €7.4bn, implying a major re-negotiation of the Greek bailout out before next summer.

"After peaking at around 176 per cent of GDP this year, debt is expected to decline to 124pc in 2020, after additional contingent relief measures of about 4pc of GDP from Greece's European partners to be determined in 2014/15," said the IMF report. Debt sustainability concerns continue to remain a risk. Should debt sustainability concerns prove to be weighing on investor sentiments even with the framework for debt relief now in place, European partners should consider providing relief that would entail a faster reduction in debt than currently programmed."

The IMF's finding of a "financing gap [that] will open up in August 2014" contradicts denials of a shortfall from the European Commission earlier this month and the Fund's call for a debt write will be a bombshell in German elections. The eurozone is formally committed to debt relief once Greece achieves to primary budget surplus, probably at the end 2013 but Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, has warned the Greeks against seeking a "hair cut" on the amount it must pay back in loans..............
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