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Drink Driving Limit

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Drink Driving Limit

Old 21st Mar 2011, 16:20
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Drink Driving Limit

The government has rejected lowering the legal drink-drive limit by nearly half, as recommended in a Whitehall-commissioned report.

Last year, Sir Peter North said the limit should be reduced from 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood to 50mg.
BBC News - Lower drink-drive limit rejected

What do you think about this? Is there an acceptable level of alcohol in the blood for operating machinery of any sort?

What particularly interests me is the modern angle to this in discussing this issue. Most will still own up to exceeding the speed limit by quite a lot - even to the point of bragging about it, people will even own up to shoplifting or taking drugs, cheating the taxman (off the record), but who will own up to exceeding the drink drive limit even by a little bit - even to ask forgiveness for years gone by when we were young and foolish, let alone last night? I can only think of two other things less socially acceptable to admit to today. (Think the R and P words).
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 16:29
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What do you think about this?
One way of keeping the country pub open. Clealry drink driving is a 'bad thing' but there must be some leeway or do PPRuNers disagree.

Last edited by Cacophonix; 21st Mar 2011 at 16:37. Reason: clearly bad spelling is as well
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 16:41
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Oh, back when I was young and stupid...

I think the safest way to do this is to treat it as we do aviation, with no drinking before driving, just the residual level of BAC. (We all have a tiny amount of alcohol in our blood, even when we haven't had a drop to drink.)

For me it comes down to the very basic fact that one cannot judge the boundary between "I had just a drink or two, Officer," and impairment.

I think most cops hear "Uhh, just two beers!" or, "One glass of sherry," as the answer to the usual question, "Have you been drinking?" when your car was probably pulled over for reasons obvious to him but unknown to you!

You might walk into the pub planning to have "just the one," and end up over the limit without noticing that. It happens all the time, in fact, since the same effect that puts you over the limit prevents you from noticing that fact.

The last one that really caught my attention was the head of the German Lutheran church being busted for drink-driving in broad daylight, when a major career hiccup ensued; everyone had to ask, "What in the world was she thinking, there?"

Then there had been a fatal one-car crash by a notorious Austrian far-right politician. He died in the wee hours of the morning in a luxury car with a data-logging engine chip. The chip showed he was out there on a mountain road, in fog, doing about 80 mph, and the post-mortem showed that his BAC was well over the limit. Now, the man was some sort of obvious loon to begin with, but I doubt that he would have done all that cold sober.

These aren't people who set out to either ruin or kill themselves, but it all started with the innocent intent to "just have the one." The only safe option is to have none, I think; either do thar or else just suck it up and pay for a taxi ride home. You could afford the price of the drink so that you should be able to afford the price of the taxi. If you are in a group then the "short straw" gets to be the designated driver, when it can be sort of fun to watch your friends all get ratted.
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 16:46
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Drink Driving Statistics

• On average 3,000 people are killed or seriously injured each year in drink drive collisions.

• Nearly one in six of all deaths on the road involve drivers who are over the legal alcohol limit.
Therefore a sober driver is 6 times more deadly than a pissed one, so the stats suggest.
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 16:52
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Speaking for the UK (not sure of limits elsewhere) I think we are about right. I think that lowering the limits to approach zero would be counter-productive as it would alienate those of us who respect the existing laws which permit us a token half pint of beer or glass of wine if are out, and dont go down the route Chuks has described. What would be more useful would be more stringent enforcement of existing limits - at present we don't have random testing, but it surely has to come eventually.


If the accident results in death, you be charged with manslaughter or murder accordingly.

Small consolation for the relatives and friends of the person(s) you killed, BandAide.

Green granite ho ho ho - the old ones are the best ones, aren't they?
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 17:12
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Just been announced on the 5pm news that they are not going to lower the limits in the UK.

Bandaide , I know you didnt kill anyone - my illustration was hypothetical - but you knew that really, didn't you
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 17:13
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I think we are about right.
TTN, agree with that. Every one I have a drink with, in pub or club abides by the one or two pints at the most, limit. It's not just the old farts either. My 25 year old grandson and his mates have strict rules re. having a driver who will not drink at all on a night out. Regret to say that when I was that age no such considerations were entertained!
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 17:16
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Quite simple really. If you are the driver don't drink.
Then there's no problem at all.
It IS an offence to carry drunken passengers though.
(A little known offence that one.)
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 17:36
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It IS an offence to carry drunken passengers though.
Norm, never heard of that one. What about taxi/bus drivers etc?
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 17:36
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Question:


How many accidents have there been in which the driver was UNDER the drink drive limit of 80mg but over the 50mg limit?

Unless it is significant - which I would say would be no less than 10% of all drink related accidents, then there doesn't seem any point in changing the limit.

Now back in about 1960 or 61, there was published in, IIRC, New Society, the results of a study by the University of Iowa. They found that drivers who had a small amount to drink (under 30mg) were actually less likely to have an accident because they were aware they had been drinking and so were taking greater care than usual. I suspect that such research now would not be published as being politically incorrect.....

If we take other incidents, how many are caused by cars under three years old that would have failed an MOT if they had had to have one?
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 17:48
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drivers who had a small amount to drink (under 30mg) were actually less likely to have an accident because they were aware they had been drinking and so were taking greater care than usual

I think that that is one of the 'signs' that raise the suspicions of Police - a vehicle being driven steadily and within the speed limits . . .

Lowering the limit would potentially involve the Police in more 'stops' - they probably couldn't cope . . .
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 17:56
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Yeah and how about the much published "morning after" effect. The average person going out on an all night drinking binge would be caught a few days after. I can just picture it now...... "but I had a drink 2 days ago officer..."
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 18:25
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Yeah and how about the much published "morning after" effect.
Indeed, and depending on your metabolism and how quickly you become drunk/become (legally) sober you could be well over any normal limits the next day whilst feeling 'groggy' and tired whilst nursing the happy memories of the night before. Innocent, yet guilty!

As said before, better to steer clear of the juice if driving altogether. It's killing the country pub trade with many closing every week, but that's the price of progress, of sorts.


SHJ
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 18:36
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To go off on a tangent, a strange one was reported after research into smoking cannabis and driving. The dope smokers were safer as, since they were ripped, they drove in accordance to what they knew their reaction times were. That meant their perception of speed was increased, so they drove slower, etc.

As far as the limit goes, I think it's right in the UK. Over here I think it's lower but so are the penalties UNLESS you kill someone whilst DUI. Then there is no option, you go to jail. I do think the penalties for DUI here should be higher, a proper ban instead of 2 weeks for a first offence, so it is a deterrent as DUI is almost a national sport here but, ultimately, any law has to be backed up properly and that is why "random stops" are maybe not so good if they are in publicised places (like in Oz) so the real drunk drivers find an alternative route.

Ultimately, more rozzers out there stopping cars is the only deterrent as if you know you are likely to be stopped then there's a greater chance you won't DUI. Some always will, and they should get the book thrown at them after a second offence.

The UK has actually managed to make DUI as socially offensive as doestic violence, some other places should take up that idea and do the same.
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 18:40
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Originally Posted by hellsbrink
The dope smokers were safer as, since they were ripped, they drove in accordance to what they knew their reaction times were. That meant their perception of speed was increased, so they drove slower, etc.
They also have to keep stopping to rip open another bar of chocolate...
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 18:59
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aviso importante
según la d.g.t. El 23% de los accidentes son provocados por el consumo de alcohol.
eso significa que el 77% de los accidentes restantes, son causados por les hijos de puta que beben agua, zumos, refrescos y otras mariconadas.
¡¡ al loro con les abstemios !!

important advice
according to the d.g.t 23% of accidents are caused by the consumption of alcohol.
this means that the remaining 77% of the accidents are caused by the sons of b*tches who drink water, fruit juices, refreshing or other sissy drinks.
to hell with abstinence !
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 19:12
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SpringHeeledJack,

If they make the alcohol limit zero tolerance, they will be catching people not only the morning after but also the day after that (perhaps)- as any trace of alcohol in one's breath or blood stream will ensure they are deemed guilty. There will be a total lack of common sense applied like most things now in the UK........
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 19:13
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And, OFSO, to carry that further,


98% of accidents are caused by the nut holding the wheel...........
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 19:27
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I've never quite understood the idea that you have to drink alcohol when you go out. Why is that?

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Old 21st Mar 2011, 19:35
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A glass of wine with a meal is surely normal and ok, B&T, same as having ONE beer (wot I used to do in the younger days, one person would be the "designated driver one weekend, next weekend it was someone else, etc) is ok before moving onto soft drinks.

That is the thing, ONE was the limit, and that was instilled in me from a younger-than-now age..........
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