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USA Politics - Hamster Wheel

Old 12th Oct 2012, 12:41
  #9161 (permalink)  
 
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Spin can be put as much as one likes on the VP debate last night but in reality, Biden won the debate hands down. And if you do a little looking around the overwhelming majority of polls - for whatever those are worth - show this.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 12:43
  #9162 (permalink)  
 
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11Fan wrote:

Karl Rove brought up a good point on Greta just now.
There aren't too many people on this earth that I have a deep-seated hatred for. However, Karl Rove is one of them.

I would love nothing better than to double-tap him, straight between his beady little eyes.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 12:56
  #9163 (permalink)  
 
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Typical Liberal Democrat comment RGB.....please do explain why you feel that way!

Do be specific....lay out your case in detail on why Rove deserves that.....and exactly what allows you to think that is any kind of appropriate comment to make. Just what has Rove done that you would endorse, suggest, and offer murder?

I sense some frustration on your part as the Obama Team seems to be striking out recently. More and more I sense you are not quite what you claim as your rants are becoming more unhinged with time. That is a trait I notice in devoted Obama Voters as they sense it is all coming to an end for the Anointed One.

So...make your case for killing Rove.....it should be interesting reading if you can actually articulate your reasoning.

Last edited by SASless; 12th Oct 2012 at 13:01.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 13:02
  #9164 (permalink)  
 
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If I may, Rove is a fave study of mine.

Used to despise the man until I realised why, and it made sense.

He is a strategist, an excellent one, and near as I can tell, devoid of emotion.

He'd have made a grand NAZI.

And this from someone who is passionate that Obama go back local, wikiwiki...

Picture Mr. Rove in those boots, a luger, and 'pince-nez'.


sayin

Last edited by Lyman; 12th Oct 2012 at 13:07.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 13:08
  #9165 (permalink)  
 
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He is a Strategist and looks to the long term. Even his critics speak well of his ability and insight. That he was directly involved in the defeat of so many Democrats has garnered him much angst from that direction. I would think rather than Hate....the other side would at some point accept the simple fact he is very good at playing the political game. Hell....even the NYTimes has spolen well of him and Lord knows they are not known for saying anything nice about Republicans or Conservatives.

As a Fox News contributor, Karl provides a “genuine feel of inside knowledge,” says David Zurawik, Baltimore Sun television critic. Megan Garber, of the Columbia Journalism Review, says Karl has “focused his punditry on what he knows best: strategy.” Even the New York Times acclaims that “Rove’s substantive contributions may now inspire a little work ethic among the celebrity talking heads who may be forced to bring to the news a little more data and a little less opinion, a recalibration that would be welcome to its devoted viewers.”

Last edited by SASless; 12th Oct 2012 at 13:09.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 13:10
  #9166 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure why you insist on, and continue to, label me as a so-called Liberal Democrat, SASless. For that is not what I am.
If some of my comments come across as such, so be it. However, if you look at other comments I have made over the years you'll note that I also have "Conservative" traits as well.

Again, I don't adhere to one side or the other.

As far as Rove is concerned: to me he is a "man" without honor, integrity or scruples. None whatsoever. He is also highly symbolic of the "well oiled political machine" and plays it well. Albeit with no integrity. He is also another one of the "how many Vietnam draft deferments can I obtain" club. Rove got three deferments*. To me, and this is solely my opinion, anyone who goes out of their way to avoid serving their country when called to duty is nothing more than a scumbag.

I could go on about him but won't waste anymore of my time.

PS: I'm not advocating murder. Just a double-tap.

*3 deferments and then leads the charge in questioning the military record of John Kerry. Although certainly no John Kerry fan I find it an outrage that a scumbag like Rove, the lily-livered piece of shit that he is, questions the record of someone who did serve. VOLUNTARILY.

Last edited by rgbrock1; 12th Oct 2012 at 13:14.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 13:13
  #9167 (permalink)  
 
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"As far as Rove is concerned: to me he is a "man" without honor, integrity or scruples. None whatsoever. He is also highly symbolic of the "well oiled political machine" and plays it well. Albeit with no integrity. He is also another one of the "how many Vietnam draft deferments can I obtain" club. Rove got three deferments. To me, and this is solely my opinion, anyone who goes out of their way to avoid serving their country when called to duty is nothing more than a scumbag."

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Old 12th Oct 2012, 13:16
  #9168 (permalink)  
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And if you do a little looking around the overwhelming majority of polls - for whatever those are worth - show this.


Politico: Snap polls: Ryan 2, Biden 1

Huffington Post: Vice Presidential Debate Polls Show Mixed Results

Last edited by ORAC; 12th Oct 2012 at 13:16.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 13:55
  #9169 (permalink)  
 
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Lyman....Does any Politician at the National level have too much of the traits you describe as being critical to earning your approval?

I would suggest perhaps Reagan and now Romney come much closer than most but in order to play ball in that league....one must get some dirt on your hands I suppose. The question is just how much dirt.

Consider this.....if the Media paid as much attention to Clinton and Obama....along with their Senior Advisors and Strategists....as they have to Bush.....would our Liberal friends be able to suggest Rove stands by himself in the Stage Lights?

Karl Rove compared to David Axlerod looks like a Choir Boy with an Angelic Wings emerging from his shoulders!

Texas politics is a Frat House Tumble compared to Chicago/Illinois Politics yet our Media vilifies Texas Republicans, ignores Texas Democrats, and absolutely adores the Chicago crowd.

Our perceptions...no matter well researched are tainted by the sheer amount of media hype.

All we have to do is do a Checklist of Topics and run down the list comparing the two sides postions, comments, and actions to determine which side holds to a higher standard of honesty, candidness, and tone.

To damn Rove and ignore Axlerod for instance....is unfair. He should be judged in the same manner as his peers on the other side of the issues. Not doing so is being intellectually dishonest.

I should think ranking these guys after judging their conduct is the way it should be done.

Unlike RGB who wishes to murder Rove.....all I want to do is Water Board Axlerod.....and then only to see what the "truth" is behind the Obama Administration. (Just kidding about the Water Boarding.....but you get my point.)
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 14:04
  #9170 (permalink)  
 
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Ms. Cutter wasn't paying attention

RGB:
Biden won the debate hands down.

Cutter: I Didn't "Catch" the Exchange When Joe Biden Lied About Libya - Katie Pavlich
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 14:23
  #9171 (permalink)  
 
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SASless

Run, and win... After you grok politics by experience you will share my pov, there is no doubt in my mind.

I despise Sacramento only slightly less than DC, and City Hall, less than Sacto.

These centers of power are polluted by the worst manner of vermin, with our ignorant assent to the crimes and fraud committed in our name.

I ended my political career sitting on a school board, trying to protect the promise of our Nation, the children, from politicians and union weasels.

I fought the union and their muppets by supporting charters, vouchers, and home schooling. By the time i left the board, we had thriving charter schools, substantial numbers of home schooled kids, and a union that had lost their prize, "closed shop". I published the salaries of the admins, and the teachers, and opened the eyes of the communiity to the realities of public schools, not always the most desired method of education.....

You need to run, your love for country needs to be displayed to the weasels who would pervert our process, and our legacy.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 14:45
  #9172 (permalink)  
 
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SASless:

I have a question for you. As someone who honorably served our country in Vietnam, no doubt getting your ass shot at on occasion, how is it that you're able to overlook those scumbags who shirked their duty to country?

You take people like Dastardly Dick Cheney or Karl Rove, just to name a couple out of many, who obtained several deferments during 'Nam. At least Cheney was honest when he said "I had better things to do" when he was asked why he sought those deferments. I mean, were they better than you? (No, I don't think so.) Were they more "important" than you. (No, I don't think so.)

So just how is it that you have this ability to overlook the chicken-shits of the political class in this regard? I'm just curious.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 15:00
  #9173 (permalink)  
 
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Karl Rove compared to David Axlerod looks like a Choir Boy with an Angelic Wings emerging from his shoulders!
Think you got it reversed.
Karl Rove should be in jail in Texas, having never reached the Washington DC scene. He managed to cling tightly to the coattails of HW, GW & Cheney to escape prosecution, something Tom Delay hasn't been able to do. Once in DC, he managed to escape prosecution in the Valerie Plame episode by one of his underlings taking the fall. There are two Republican Parties, one run by the RNC, the other (perhaps larger) "shadow" party run by Karl. His op-eds in the WSJ are mostly a joke, maybe one good column in 50 tries or more... His lack of integrity and moral bankruptcy started back in his college days at the University of Utah and has developed immensely over time....

TD
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 15:34
  #9174 (permalink)  
 
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Real Clear Politics Electoral College Vote Map shows Obama in Free Fall! He now owns less than Ten States....Good News for the Challenger!


RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map






RGB.....I posed the question to you about justifying your desire to kill Karl Rove....but no response.

I have no problem with guys who went to Canada or Sweden during Vietnam.

They made their choice....I made mine.

I do have a huge problem with Jimmy Carter granting them Amnesty however and he served in the Navy during his younger years.

If the guys got a deferment....without violating the law....then I have no problem. There were Democrats and Republicans that used that method along with getting into the National Guard.

Turbine.....you knowledge of the Valarie Plame affair is grossly ignorant of the facts. It was Richard Armitage who outed Plame....not Rove, not Libby, not Bush, not Cheney.

Libby got done for not telling the truth when he had written documentation that countered his statements under oath.

I might remind you of Fast and Furious and Eric Holder doing exactly the same but we do not see the Media camping outside his door today.

While you are at it....consider Libya Gate that is underway right now and who is lying....just not under Oath yet......operative word being "yet".

Last edited by SASless; 12th Oct 2012 at 16:30.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 16:45
  #9175 (permalink)  
 
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Just read a couple of blurbs which are a bit concerning.

Seems some of the Syrian "rebels" have taken over a Syrian missile base. What makes it concerning is that a group tied to Al Qaeda is embedded with them.

Al Qaeda and missiles? Never, ever a good thing.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 16:50
  #9176 (permalink)  
 
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Syria fires missiles into Turkey.
Turkey responds in kind.
NATO allies obliged to support.
White House Phone rings at 3:00 AM, goes to voice mail.

"Sorry I missed your call. Please leave a message and someone will get back to you."
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 16:57
  #9177 (permalink)  

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Seems some of the Syrian "rebels" have taken over a Syrian missile base. What makes it concerning is that a group tied to Al Qaeda is embedded with them.
Perhaps that this would be something for Turkey to take care of. They have the Air Force to do the mission. However, as it is the 'offical' government of Syria that has been shelling Turkey, perhaps Turkey will not do anything.

Time will tell I guess.


Now, the debate. If the Huffington did not declare Biden a clear winner, which they did not, I do believe that overall by most voters, it was a tie. To be sure it was not a knock out by Ryan or Biden as it was with Ronmey over Obama.

So,

Republicans 1-0-1

Democrats 0-1-1
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 17:21
  #9178 (permalink)  
 
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rgb....

I read the Army put special forces on the ground in Syria to prevent this very thing from happening. Rangers, perhaps?

Frightening to think of the outcome of other sites that are still vulnerable.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 17:25
  #9179 (permalink)  
 
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CoF:

I doubt Army Rangers would be involved in this sort of thing.
My thinking - and I had read about Special Forces being on the ground in Jordan and Turkey - is that these are either 1st-SFOD-D (commonly referred to as Delta or The Unit), SEALs or Special Activities Branch of the CIA. Or a combination of the above. Might be a few Rangers around for security but I doubt that.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 18:31
  #9180 (permalink)  
 
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Turbine.....you knowledge of the Valarie Plame affair is grossly ignorant of the facts. It was Richard Armitage who outed Plame....not Rove, not Libby, not Bush, not Cheney.
On July 11, 2006, Robert Novak confirmed that Rove was his second source for his article that revealed the identity of Valerie Plame as a CIA agent, the source who confirmed what Armitage had told him.
Denis Collins, Juror #9 in the Libby trial indicated that Libby did commit the acts he was convicted of, but the jury also concluded he was a "fall guy" and wondered during deliberations why Rove and others (Armitage) weren't being tried as well. GW commuted Libby's prison sentence but did not pardon him, something Cheney repeatedly pressed for. If you read Rove's book, Courage and Consequences, you would come to the conclusion you have reached.
Interestingly, a lobbyist bundler for Mitt Romney, Richard Hohit, was a-go-between in the outing of Plame. Novak gave his column to Hohit who gave it to Rove prior to publication, small world, isn't it?

TD
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