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Wikileaks - Julian Assange

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Wikileaks - Julian Assange

Old 18th Jul 2019, 05:36
  #1561 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Originally Posted by 419 View Post
Yet they asked for permission to fire 30 seconds before this.
Why?
They hadn't been fired upon and they hadn't had any weapons pointed towards them at this time. All they had seen were people walking around with AK's and making no aggressive moves towards the helicopter so the possible presence of an RPG or other shoulder fired weapon had no bearing on their decision to open fire.

currawong,
Why no comment about the conversation at 9.14 onwards?

"We have individuals going to the scene. Possibly picking up bodies and weapons"
"let me engage"
"Can I shoot"
"request permission to engage"
"Picking up the wounded?"
"yeah, we're trying to get permission to engage"
"come on, let us shoot"
"They're taking him"
"picking up the bodies. Request permission to engage. F**k"



No threat whatsoever made yet they still opened fire on people whose only concern was picking up dead and wounded people.

I don't know what you would call those actions but I know what I would.
The gunships were there in support of troops in contact. A group of armed individuals exiting the scene are likely to get some of the wrong sort of attention.

Do I have to explain what "troops in contact" means?
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 10:29
  #1562 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by currawong View Post
The gunships were there in support of troops in contact. A group of armed individuals exiting the scene are likely to get some of the wrong sort of attention.

Do I have to explain what "troops in contact" means?
That would be helpful, as well as how it relates to "Rules of Engagement" and "Military necessity" and avoiding civilian casualties.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 11:36
  #1563 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by artee View Post
That would be helpful, as well as how it relates to "Rules of Engagement" and "Military necessity" and avoiding civilian casualties.
"Troops in contact" means that at that moment there is an actual shooting engagement happening. In this case very nearby.

It will usually mean that support arms (air, artillery or whatever else) give immediate priority to the unit engaged with the enemy.

In this case the enemy were insurgents, dressed in civilian clothing, armed with AK-47s and the like, using hit and run type tactics.

Unfortunately for the journalists, being armed, very close and moving the way they were put them in harms way. The pointing of what we now know to be a camera sealed the deal.

If you watch the recording in its entirety, you will observe the crew rejecting targets that they could not be sure of.

Yes the van was also engaged. It was/is common practice for insurgents to police up their casualties and weapons for future use.

I cannot speak for the "Rules of Engagement" of the unit involved. But I could guess that if it looks like enemy, behaves like enemy, is armed, is in the immediate vicinity of a contact then points what appears to be a weapon at you then stuff will happen.

If you listen you will hear the crew not engaging the wounded individual on the ground as he is no longer armed.

Terrible unfortunate incident. With the benefit of hindsight etc etc.

But I can also totally see how it could occur. It is surprising perhaps that it does not happen more often.

I see nowadays the press has taken to clearly signposting themselves as such. Lessons learned I suppose.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 18:52
  #1564 (permalink)  
 
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"Julian Assange has dropped an appeal against his 50-week jail term for jumping bail by going into hiding in the Ecuadorian embassy.

He lodged an appeal against the length of his sentence and a hearing was due to take place at the Court of Appeal in London on July 23.

But Assange is no longer pursuing the appeal and a spokeswoman for the judiciary confirmed on Thursday that the planned hearing had been cancelled."

Perhaps he has twigged that he is more comfy in Belmarsh until February 2020 than being subject to the consequences of an earlier extradition?
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 21:09
  #1565 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by artee View Post
That would be helpful,
Troops in contact means that shooting is already happening in that hostile engagement (roughly).
The significance of that is that the protestation by 419 that this crew were not allowed to shoot unless fired upon is utterly false.
That helicopter crew did not engage a target in a vacuum: there were part of a larger action that was already involving shooting. There are still a variety of fire control measures and fire discipline methods that come into play, even with troops in contact. As I don't have that day's RoE, nor that unit's RoE, to hand, no further comment.

I will also not comment on whether or not I agree with their choices. We are already off topic for this thread, which is the fate of Julian Assange for other things. While that particular video got the attention of the ignorant and the short attention span audience, there was a lot more to wiki leaks than that video. And there were a lot of other news stories and camera footage that got people wound up about things in Iraq. That video didn't blow the lid off of anything.

As to rules of engagement: the crew doubtless had the RoE of the day card on their knee boards.
You may be surprised to learn that they can change day by day. (It was an eye opener when I found out that on a given morning, you could see new and more restrictive RoE, and less restrictive RoE, depending on a whole host of issues that the higher echelons of command and their political bosses review and make decisions on).

currawong has covered (and more) anything else I might add.

As to Mr Assange and charges of election tampering: he'll have his day in court. I'd not presume a slam dunk conviction. As the last years proceedings have shown, there's as much misinformation as information on that score. Also, someone made the point a bit further up. The Russians are not chopped liver.
Did they need Assange's help?
He might have been a useful tool (well, I think he's a complete tool, but that's a different matter) but I doubt any of their efforts depended on his contributions.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 21:14
  #1566 (permalink)  
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https://news.sky.com/story/julian-as...nding-11808875

Julian Assange to be kept in prison after sentence ends due to 'history of absconding'

Julian Assange will stay in prison after his jail term comes to an end next week over fears he will evade extradition proceedings again.

The WikiLeaks founder was sentenced in May to 50 weeks behind bars for skipping bail and hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy in London for seven years to avoid extradition to Sweden over sex offence allegations.

Assange entered the embassy in 2012 and stayed there until he was dramatically dragged out by police in April. He was due to be released from HMP Belmarsh on 22 September, but a judge at Westminster Magistrates' Court told the 48-year-old on Friday there was "substantial ground" to believe he would "abscond again".

"I have given your lawyer an opportunity to make an application for bail on your behalf and she has declined to do so," district judge Vanessa Baraitser told him. "Perhaps not surprisingly in light of your history of absconding in these proceedings. In my view I have substantial ground for believing if I release you, you will abscond again."......

Appearing in court via video-link on Friday, Assange said he didn't really understand what the judge was telling him, but was "sure the lawyers would explain it".

An administrative hearing is now scheduled for 11 October and a case management hearing for 21 October.





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Old 14th Sep 2019, 10:38
  #1567 (permalink)  
 
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Isn't this tough going doing more harm than good? Bringing him up the headlines over and over again.
He should be pardoned and let off the hooks. What exactly is he jailed for right now? For something the Suedes had already abandoned years ago.
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 10:43
  #1568 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
..... What exactly is he jailed for right now?
OR .......Why is he in gaol right now?

Two very different questions with two very different answers.
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 15:13
  #1569 (permalink)  
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Is he currently in prison for breaching the Bail Act.

I would suggest the people most harmed were those forfeited their bail guarantees to a total £93,500.....

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...d-forfeit-bail
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 19:10
  #1570 (permalink)  
 
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He was trapped under false flag. Having spent years in "prison" (embassy floor) enough should be enough. Nobody loves the traitor but this has grown out of scale. He is kept in the headlines by everything not a pardon. So let him go and be forgotten. This is not the Soviet Union.

Last edited by Less Hair; 15th Sep 2019 at 22:08.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 20:22
  #1571 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Opinion - The Devolution of US-Russia Relations

Very interesting article about the state of play in the lies being pushed by the west.
It is particularly important to filter through the lies being told to us by the warmongering western establishment in light of the recent attacks on the oil fields in KSR.
The western elite are looking for a reason to attack Iran and this may well be the false flag event event they employ.
We need many many more Julian Assanges to expose the deceitful behavior conducted by our "leaders" in London, Washington, Canberra..........
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 21:06
  #1572 (permalink)  
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Ooooh - a bot or a troll? Itís so hard to tell these days....
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 21:09
  #1573 (permalink)  
 
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So an opinion contrary to the established myopic view point held by yourself is considered a troll.
Try ex military vet who is sick and tired of the BS excuses for sending more kids to fake wars.
But yeah, troll is easier for you to comprehend........
Sleep well mate, everyone agrees with you
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 21:22
  #1574 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Orange future View Post
So an opinion contrary to the established myopic view point held by yourself is considered a troll.
Try ex military vet who is sick and tired of the BS excuses for sending more kids to fake wars.
But yeah, troll is easier for you to comprehend........
Sleep well mate, everyone agrees with you
Don't worry my friend, we need contributions like yours. This place gets too serious and we can do with some light relief.
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Old 19th Oct 2019, 07:24
  #1575 (permalink)  
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Assange lawyers claiming he will fight his extradition case up through the Supreme Court to the ECHR and the various appeals will take another 6 years. That will take his time behind bars up to 2025.

Assange broke bail and sought sanctuary in the Ecuadorean embassy in 2012. That will take his time of confinement, mostly self-imposed, to 13 years.

The maximum prison sentence in Sweden is 10 years, the average sentence for rape is 24 months.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...600k-btbgf66tm
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