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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 28th Oct 2018, 21:31
  #16341 (permalink)  
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ATNotts - VAT

Yes, sanitary products is an EU issue as we cannot remove them from VAT.

The VAT problem is not Fuel but everything else. The Chancellor can increase or reduce VAT with a floor of 15 %. The problem with fuel is only that the Chancellor cannot reduce it. Once out of the EU he will be free to increase VAT should be so wish knowing he can later reduce it.

Do we imagine for one moment, other than the manifesto commitment, that he would reduce any VAT.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 00:20
  #16342 (permalink)  
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He can only manipulate VAT within the confines of the EU VAT regulations. This is one of the reasons why the Marxist opposition so desperately want to leave the EU but yet are afraid to make any sort of commitment, wisely preferring, as good Communists, to fence sit until they can bayonet their opponents in the back.
There will however, be a Brexit deal after tomorrow's budget. Hammond today has signified that, if a no Brexit deal happens, he will have en emergency budget in which he will steer Britain into a low corporation taxation, business friendly, Singapore style economy. One refrains from too much stating of the obvious here. This is the EU's worst nightmare, a free port economy in the north compounded by a rebellious Italy on the southern borders of the evil empire. Had Europe its own army, troops would already be massing on the alpine border and the embarkation point for the Channel crossing already selected. As it is, the empire will engineer a deal and make the British look weak in the process.

Tomorrow will see some creative budgeting but one doubts it will be as devious as Marxian economics modified for the British public.


Stephen Bush. New Statesman. (So you know it's true.)
Under Labour’s fiscal rule, it has to balance day-to-day spending and aim for an operational surplus by 2022. That is to say, it can’t spend more on the regular functions of government than it takes in through tax. But it can borrow for infrastructure spending. To put it in real terms – Labour can’t spend money it doesn't have to pay doctors and nurses, or teachers. But it can borrow money - up to £250bn until 2027 - to build a new school or hospital.

Taking something into public ownership counts as infrastructure spend – just as Gordon Brown’s nationalising of the banks during the financial crisis did – under Labour’s rule, which is why the party doesn’t need to provide a revenue stream to do so. Just as spending on a new hospital secures a capital asset, so does nationalising something.

The counter-argument is that infrastructure spending creates jobs and improves productivity, but nationalising something merely changes whether those jobs are private or public. The Labour leadership’s view – and the one that would be tested if they won – is that by putting these assets into state hands, you unlock higher productivity and better job growth. (And, in the case of water companies, you gain tax revenue, as Labour’s shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, believes these companies are engaging in tax avoidance.)

And that’s why Labour hasn’t provided a cost for its renationalisation programme – and why, under its own fiscal rule, it doesn't need to.

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 29th Oct 2018 at 01:04.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 06:48
  #16343 (permalink)  
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This is an interesting development and not before time given the propagation of such groups in the UK.

No doubt there will be the usual JB recourse to "left wing rabble / rampaging mobs " but try and be honest, for a change, because it's these sort of people who pose the real threat to society.....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-police-action

For those who lack the acumen to understand just how perilous the UK's financial dilemma is, this depiction should give you a clue.

And since Treeza assures us, and some no doubt believe her every word, that we are now only a mere 5% away from complete satisfaction with the new "T's and C's " and with 5 months left, this gives ample time at 1% per month before we decorate the streets with bunting and have a national day of celebration ! ......hoorah for the sterling efforts of our tireless negotiators over the last two years !

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...budget-cartoon

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 29th Oct 2018 at 06:59.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 08:10
  #16344 (permalink)  
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 08:27
  #16345 (permalink)  
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POLITICO:

BritCoin: The morning’s real talker however is a Sun scoop that Hammond will announce a special new 50p coin to mark Brexit Day next March. Treasury sources tell Tom Newton Dunn the coin will be emblazoned with the innocent-sounding phrase “Friendship with all nations,” which at first glance looks like a rather cloying attempt to show that Brexit does not mean Britain is headed for an isolationist future. However, detailed research — OK, so it’s the top Google hit — reveals that this is actually a quote from a somewhat, erm, isolationist speech given by U.S. Founding Father Thomas Jefferson in 1801, in which he pledged “peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.”
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 09:27
  #16346 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Can I suggest you rephrase that as it comes across as rather racist. What is wrong with allowing in more computer graduates from India and restricting beggars from Romania?
I guess it does; but the point I was rather clumsily trying to make was that by and large our European friends tend to arrive here without the baggage of rather large extended families, and are for the most part young working people with no, or very small families that are not a big pull on the welfare koffers. They are often also short term residents, happy to return to their countries of origin as their economic and social circumstances require. The level of immigration and the jobs that we will be looking to fill post brexit will require a broader spread of people than computer graduates too.

I would say that characterising all Romanians as beggars may also smell a little of racism!!
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 10:14
  #16347 (permalink)  
 
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Gertrude: Re this "Money Tree": That has been suffering an awful lot of shaking lately hasn't it? It seems to currently be the Conservatives' favourite piece of horticulture at the moment as all one hears is "we have increased spending on (choose a department) by xx£billion since..." Or"This government is committed to increasing spending on (pick another department or lobby group here) by another XX£billion". In fact, I would say those lines, or something similar, are most often heard as an almost standard government response to most questions raised in PMQ, usually as a way to avoid answering a question directly. And this money tree is a marvel as it doesn't need feeding. A tax cut here and a tax cut there.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 10:31
  #16348 (permalink)  
 
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However long the immigration issue continues to be flogged as an excuse for Brexit, the basic fact is that the majority of immigration and consequent dependency on resources has always come from outside the EU. Brexit is not going to change that one iota. If we couldn't control it before, there is no reason to think we can change it now.
One of the Brexiteers' own frighteners was the threat of 100 million new immigrants coming from Turkey that was apparently about to join the EU. We know what happened to that little gem.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 12:19
  #16349 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I by and large our European friends tend to arrive here without the baggage of rather large extended families, and are for the most part young working people with no, or very small families that are not a big pull on the welfare koffers. They are often also short term residents,
True, but while their families might be back home I believe they are in receipt of child allowance etc which is remitted to their home country. I can't give a reference but recall it from an article recently.

Regarding 'temporary ' our Lithuanian car wash has had the same guys running it for a number of years. One is married, has had two children and they are at a local school. The Boston Polish and Portuguese population is also pretty permanent.

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 29th Oct 2018 at 16:18.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 14:37
  #16350 (permalink)  
 
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True, but while their families might be back home I believe they are in receipt of child allowance etc which is remitted to their home country. I can't give a reference but recall it from an article recently.
A number of EU states aren't happy about that either and efforts have been made to stop or curtail it. The Polish and other governments are agin such legislation and point out that because the much lower costs in their countries, host nations of migrant workers are better off having their child allowance sent to Poland etc than paying for education of their children in UK!! That may be true, but it doesn't fly in the eyes of public opinion.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 14:41
  #16351 (permalink)  
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Were I Jewish or a rich man living in Britain, I'd see no difference between what I'd think Momentum would like to do with me and what Momentum tell me the far right would like to do with me. In either event, were Momentum to gain power, I'd leave.
The money tree, or so John MacDonnell has told the public, is in the Caymans. He's going to dig it up and bring it to Britain, or so he said. The UK government has a lot of leverage with the Caymans, so he probably could do just that, given the opportunity.
For all that, the resource of Jews and rich men living in Britain, and that's by no means a synonymity, is not unlimited and neither is the Cayman money tree. Phillip Hammond said yesterday that if there were a no deal Brexit, he'd have to have an emergency budget geared to turning Britain into a low tax, Singapore style economy. Today the FTSE is up 120pts at lunch time. You'd better hope like Jimmy Cricket for a no deal Brexit, that just might produce an almost infinite resource.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 14:47
  #16352 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
However long the immigration issue continues to be flogged as an excuse for Brexit, the basic fact is that the majority of immigration and consequent dependency on resources has always come from outside the EU. Brexit is not going to change that one iota. If we couldn't control it before, there is no reason to think we can change it now.
One of the Brexiteers' own frighteners was the threat of 100 million new immigrants coming from Turkey that was apparently about to join the EU. We know what happened to that little gem.
You are right: the majority of immigrants arrive from outside the EU. Pretty sure that all who post on this thread are well aware of the fact.

But your reiteration of the point is a red-herring.

Imigration policy for nationals outside the EU is a matter for the UK government. If the electorate don’t like the policy they have the opportunity to vote in a new government every 5 years.

There is no UK policy for EU nationals. We are EU citizens, members of the single market and must accept free movement of all our fellow EU citizens. Note: no you were not in a coma when the UK voted on this; we were not given the option.

The point during the referendum for me, and I suspect many others, was that a Sovereign Nation is not a Sovereign Nation if it cannot control its own immigration policy.

As as for the Turks. It was Boris (Turkish ancestry) who pointed out that when Turkey joins the EU (the direction of traffic at the time) 50M Turks would have the absolute right of free movement to the UK.

He didn’t suggest they all would. But then again, at the 2004 enlargement, Blair and Brown, poured scorn on those ‘little-Englanders’ who voiced concern over uncontrolled immigration from Eastern Europe, suggesting that estimates of anything more than a few tens of thousands was scaremongering.

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Old 29th Oct 2018, 15:17
  #16353 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
...the majority of immigration and consequent dependency on resources has always come from outside the EU.
But... until they are granted indefinite leave to remain (an absolute minimum of 5 years after arrival) they are not entitled to any state benefits (except for genuine refugees), as they must be here on a work visa or a fiancée/spouse visa, and they must also pay an annual NHS insurance charge. I don't see the same rules applying to EU immigrants.

Last edited by MFC_Fly; 29th Oct 2018 at 16:59.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 16:38
  #16354 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Not surprised. All leavers do that rather than actually answer the question.
Maybe because the question is too broad in its scope and almost impossible to answer objectively.

You’ve already alluded to freedom of movement as a benefit of EU membership. Others may consider the strain on public services and downward pressure on wages. Better means different things to different people.

A lot of Remainers would look at the economic benefits of EU membership, but I don’t think there is a consensus on what the economic landscape will look like in say 5 years either in the UK or the EU.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 18:38
  #16355 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Gertrude: Re this "Money Tree": That has been suffering an awful lot of shaking lately hasn't it? It seems to currently be the Conservatives' favourite piece of horticulture at the moment
Yup. A classic example is "reduce business rates".

Great, until you remember that business rate receipts are being transferred to councils, so another way of spelling this would be "yet more cuts to council services".
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 18:39
  #16356 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Maybe because the question is too broad in its scope and almost impossible to answer objectively.
So if it's impossible to state what the benefits of leaving are why does anyone think it's a good idea?
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 19:42
  #16357 (permalink)  
 
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I see the chancellor is earmarking an extra £2bn for mental health services. Will that be enough to treat all the carpet chewing Remainers, especially the fruitbat with his silly costume, EU flag and banners who does his pathetic little dance behind TV reporters outside Parliament ? His deranged antics sum up the entire Remain movement !
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 20:06
  #16358 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dutystude View Post
You are right: the majority of immigrants arrive from outside the EU. Pretty sure that all who post on this thread are well aware of the fact.
But your reiteration of the point is a red-herring.

On the contrary, it is entirely relevant when the reduction of immigration is claimed to be a benefit of Brexit

Imigration policy for nationals outside the EU is a matter for the UK government. If the electorate don’t like the policy they have the opportunity to vote in a new government every 5 years.
Really? Successive governments have made it a declared policy to reduce immigration, and they have failed to do so. According to your theory, the electorate are not bothered about immigration since they still elected the last two governments.

All Brexit can do is apply the same failed controls to the smaller number of EU nationals, that have not reduced the larger number of non-EU nationals.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 20:14
  #16359 (permalink)  

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"So if it's impossible to state what the benefits of leaving are why does anyone think it's a good idea?"

That little Farage stalking-horse' scaremongering panicked Cameron into holding a referendum with the result that we all know.
It'll be bad for the EU and much worse for Britain, long and short-term.

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Old 29th Oct 2018, 20:21
  #16360 (permalink)  
 
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The Metropolitan Police are creating their own cadre of "Zampolits"...

https://www.met.police.uk/car/career...ssor-overview/
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