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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 24th Oct 2018, 13:16
  #16281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
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Originally Posted by Parapunter View Post
Irrespective of whether you consider that to be project fear or project fact I would expect anyone of sound mind to be appalled at that prospect. But no, to you, it's sensible precautions. How diminished we are as a nation to have apologists for the worst act of unprecedented self harm in our long history expounding this nonsense gaily as if it's just some sixth form debating society thing while focusing on the real issue which is obviously whether a crowd in London had this or that many people in it. Amazing.

Isn't it a bit of a non story though?. Currently business looks at alternative routes when Dover is closed or congested (yet another French strike?), so why would you not expect the same to happen post brexit.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 14:30
  #16282 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Hussar54,

That article is full of 'might' 'could' 'if' with no actual facts. And it is their club we are leaving, of course they want it to cost money! And some people are amazed that they are not happy with us leaving, not paying the membership (not that we ever paid the full amount) anymore and then demanding access to everything we had before...
All articles / discussions / deabtes / posts on here are ' might ' and ' could ' etc....

The rantings above about food and medicine shortages are also ' mights' and ' perhaps ' - so just for balance, etc....

Just an alternative point of view to yourself -

The EU isn't a club - call it a de facto nation ( own President, own parliament, own Supreme Courst, etc ) or call it a Trading Bloc, or call it history's greatest Ponzi Scheme or call it an idealogical ' Project 'or call it what you will, but club it most certainlty isn't.

And a bit exaggerted to say the UK is demanding - the UK is trying to start negotiations on a Trade Agreement subsequent to leaving, but it's the EU who, said not until we agree how much you're going to pay us for the privelege of leaving.and continued access to our markets. Did any of the other countries who the EU has Trade Agreements with have to pay a ' Joining Fee ' ? No....Thought not.!

Will the EU be paying for access to the UK market ? No....Thought not !

The biggest mistake that the UK made was not voting to leave, but thinking that it would be able to negotiate with normal, rational people rather than those who put their ideology before the employment prospects and wellbeing of 400 million EU citizens.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 16:39
  #16283 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
And it is their club we are leaving, of course they want it to cost money!
Why should it cost money when you leave a club? Surely you just stop paying the membership fee.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 16:49
  #16284 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Why should it cost money when you leave a club? Surely you just stop paying the membership fee.
if you've run up a bill at the bar and restaurant they might want you you to settle that before you leave.

I appreciate that the EU isn't a club, more of a train, with gravy.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 17:53
  #16285 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
they even provided free transport.
Do tell who this "they" of yours is, and how I go about reclaiming my train fare.
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Old 24th Oct 2018, 18:25
  #16286 (permalink)  
 
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Give 'em a ring....

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...w-richard-keys
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 08:00
  #16287 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Isn't it a bit of a non story though?. Currently business looks at alternative routes when Dover is closed or congested (yet another French strike?), so why would you not expect the same to happen post brexit.
A very good point from BAengineer, French strikes have probably done more to prepare Britain for a mismanaged Brexit than anything that could be done in Whitehall!!
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 08:08
  #16288 (permalink)  
 
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Another report that no doubt was written by the “oh look the sky is falling in” brigade :

https://www.iata.org/policy/consumer...exit-study.pdf

(Apologies for aviation content possibly written by experts).
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 11:29
  #16289 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting article in today's Times - "Russia moves to block UK's vision for world trade".

About 20 countries including Russia, the US and New Zealand are not accepting that Britain should take a share of the EU's trade under WTO rules.

Another little problem to be resolved.
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 11:47
  #16290 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Another report that no doubt was written by the “oh look the sky is falling in” brigade :

https://www.iata.org/policy/consumer...exit-study.pdf

(Apologies for aviation content possibly written by experts).
Very interesting...Thanks.

Although still a lot of ' ifs' and ' maybes ' although my take is that it seems that the biggest ' threat ' so far is the US and domicile of UK carriers' ownership should the UK not get its act together if it does get kicked out of EASA ??

Assuming that's the case, then nothing much the UK Government can do about it - it's then up to IAG, TUI, Norwegian ( I'm sure Virgin will pass muster ) etc, to resolve themselves, no ??
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 13:35
  #16291 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Another report that no doubt was written by the “oh look the sky is falling in” brigade :

(Apologies for aviation content possibly written by experts).
Interesting that they say the most likely outcome from a Regulatory standpoint is that the UK remains in EASA - somewhat contrary to the Remain 'experts' on PPRuNe who have been claiming for the past 2 years that that cannot happen.

Perhaps the authors of the report dont read this site?
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 18:00
  #16292 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Interesting that they say the most likely outcome from a Regulatory standpoint is that the UK remains in EASA - somewhat contrary to the Remain 'experts' on PPRuNe who have been claiming for the past 2 years that that cannot happen.
It can't happen if you believe that May is serious about her red lines, that hasn't changed.

It can however happen if you expect her to cave in and accept BINO.

Which of these scenarios you think is "most likely" is up to you.
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 18:08
  #16293 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
It can't happen if you believe that May is serious about her red lines, that hasn't changed.

It can however happen if you expect her to cave in and accept BINO.

Which of these scenarios you think is "most likely" is up to you.
Have you read the document? - the government has already stated its desire to remain in EASA.


The UK government has repeatedly stated an intent to continue to participate in the work of EASA. For example, the UK aviation minister, Baroness Sugg, gave a clear commitment to the UK’s involvement in March 2018,24 which was later confirmed by the Prime Minister in the UK government White Paper published in July 2018, alongside a commitment to accept regulation and contribute financially.25
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 20:27
  #16294 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Have you read the document? - the government has already stated its desire to remain in EASA.
The government has stated all sorts of desires. Some of them are unlikely to be satisfied.
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Old 25th Oct 2018, 21:41
  #16295 (permalink)  
 
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I love Remainers, they are like the gift that keeps on giving.
  • The economy will collapse if we vote Leave - it didn't
  • We'll need an emergency budget - we didn't
  • The FTSE100 will crash - it didn't
  • We'll be reduced to a 3rd world state, surviving off scraps tossed aside by the EU - Nope, that fate is reserved for the bankrupt eurozone states, thanks very much
  • We'll have no Doctors and Nurses, Hotel staff, Fruit pickers, etc, etc. No problem, we can fill any shortfall from the newly redundant masses! At any rate, nobody has said anything about kicking out EU citizens whom are already here - quite the opposite in fact. Neither I suspect, in practice, will be it particularly difficult for EU citizens to come across here in Summer to do a bit of waiting on or fruit picking.
  • All future Trade with the EU will be mired in red tape and come to a grinding halt. Sure, I get the EU has to play hard ball on this one, as access to a free trade zone is the only real selling point it has. Nevertheless, it cuts both ways, so let's see how content BMW, VW, and countless other smaller EU companies are with extra barriers being placed inbetween them and access to the 5th largest global economy
I'm sure there's countless other downsides that keep remainers awake at night, like believing they wont be able to go on the annual summer holiday to Spain in future. And they say Leavers are stupid
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 07:48
  #16296 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
I love Remainers, they are like the gift that keeps on giving.
  • The economy will collapse if we vote Leave - it didn't
  • We'll need an emergency budget - we didn't
  • The FTSE100 will crash - it didn't
  • We'll be reduced to a 3rd world state, surviving off scraps tossed aside by the EU - Nope, that fate is reserved for the bankrupt eurozone states, thanks very much
  • We'll have no Doctors and Nurses, Hotel staff, Fruit pickers, etc, etc. No problem, we can fill any shortfall from the newly redundant masses! At any rate, nobody has said anything about kicking out EU citizens whom are already here - quite the opposite in fact. Neither I suspect, in practice, will be it particularly difficult for EU citizens to come across here in Summer to do a bit of waiting on or fruit picking.
  • All future Trade with the EU will be mired in red tape and come to a grinding halt. Sure, I get the EU has to play hard ball on this one, as access to a free trade zone is the only real selling point it has. Nevertheless, it cuts both ways, so let's see how content BMW, VW, and countless other smaller EU companies are with extra barriers being placed inbetween them and access to the 5th largest global economy
I'm sure there's countless other downsides that keep remainers awake at night, like believing they wont be able to go on the annual summer holiday to Spain in future. And they say Leavers are stupid
And welcome to Nirvana, currently located in leafy Chesheer ( as some Beeb presenters are prone to pronounce the County ) where clearly the "flowers do bloom in the spring tra la la ".....

The first three points, true, but there's nothing like a bit of smug moral retrospection to convince yourself and others of the fact these projections didn't actually transpire.....of course, it's not yet March 2019 thus it may be prudent to wait until after this date don't you think ?

A 3rd world state you say ?.......erm, not quite, but there is steady decline in our standard of living

Trade won't come to a grinding halt, only the distribution and logistical supply chains......a mere detail of course.

Personnel ......now that's an interesting one given the much promoted concerns across a broad spectrum of occupations, professions and sectors as to recruitment and retention in the near future. Of course, it's entirely possible these concerns are merely alarmist rhetoric with absolutely no validity whatsoever.......at least for the residents of JB Wisteria Avenu

Finally, as they used to say on "Top of the Pops " ....."up one place this week to number five....here's France ! "......so no, I don't think it's unreasonable to surmise the manufacturers you mention will have any problems.....now, lets talk about who is in 6th place .

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 26th Oct 2018 at 09:35.
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 08:31
  #16297 (permalink)  
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I wonder if there is any correlation between remainers and warmists? Between remainers and pesimists?
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 09:20
  #16298 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Have you read the document? - the government has already stated its desire to remain in EASA.

The UK government has repeatedly stated an intent to continue to participate in the work of EASA. For example, the UK aviation minister, Baroness Sugg, gave a clear commitment to the UK’s involvement in March 2018,24 which was later confirmed by the Prime Minister in the UK government White Paper published in July 2018, alongside a commitment to accept regulation and contribute financially.25
Yes, I'm sure it has, but as with so many other things in the UK / EU negotiation the terms "cherry picking" and "cake eating" come to mind. If the UK is to get to eat any cherry cake it's going to have make further concessions, and blur (further) it's red lines. Government negotiators know this, it's just how they sell it to largely clueless and out of touch politicians is the question.

That will be painful for hard brexiteers, and not particularly welcomed by hard remainers either.
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 10:12
  #16299 (permalink)  
 
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"They think it's all over..."

I suggest that both sides wait until the final whistle next March to see who has won this particular match. Although it seems that our side are desperately playing for extra time.

And when they finally leave the pitch they will find only cold showers in their WTO changing room.
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Old 26th Oct 2018, 11:25
  #16300 (permalink)  
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French Regional President: No Deal Brexit won't mean Calais disruption


French Regional President Xavier Bertrand has dismissed the idea of a ‘go slow’ policy at the port of Calais if there is a No Deal Brexit, asking: “Who can believe such a thing?”

Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab had suggested that in the worst case scenario, French disruption could lead to problems. But Bertrand, who is Regional President for Hauts-De-France was gobsmacked and responded to the reports by tweeting:

“No! Closing the port or the tunnel of Calais to the British in case of Brexit without agreement is not envisaged! Who can believe such a thing? We must do everything to ensure fluidity. The Hauts-de-France area and Calais are Planning to Implement a fast pass pour augmenter fluidity at both ports & tunnel. Who on earth could think that a go-slow approach would be good for business?”

Bertrand also tweeted a photo of him with the British Transport Minister Chris Grayling, making clear that he had been working with Calais Mayor Natacha Bouchart and “local economic players to ensure the smooth flow of both sides of the Channel”.
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