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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 22nd Aug 2018, 14:30
  #15501 (permalink)  
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The error the PLP made was in allowing JC to be allowed on the ballot which went forward to the CLPs for a final ballot. That was an error they will never recover from.

The Conservative MPs are initially allowed to propose as many candidates as possible, but those with the least votes are eliminated until only 2 are left - which is what eliminated Boris last time, and will ensure both his, and JRM if he stood (though he has said he would not) through tactical voting.

So anyone sign8ng up to vote for either will be sorely disappointed when their ballot paper arrives.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 14:49
  #15502 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I still don't rule out the possibility of a Labour government in 2022, if the present administration can last its full term. By then the effects of Brexit will be upon us, and even the strongest of Brexiteers seem to accept that there will be some initial pain.

I think the electorate will be looking for something, anything, that promises a fresh start. In the same way that they voted for a Labour government immediately after WW2. And there is no other alternative.
Yes the prospect of a Labour government is dreadful. But sometimes we have to think the unthinkable.
Sally, I don't think it will be the effects of Brexit that will cause what you outline, I think it's likely for some other reasons though. Firstly the failure of this Government to deliver the proper, clean Brexit that they should have done will lead many former conservative voters to not vote at all in the next GE, they won't vote Labour or Lib Dem either. Secondly the abject failure of this Government to deliver on any other priorities during this recent period will drive people either not to vote or to vote for a change, health, prisons, roads, policing, immigration, defence the list goes on and on. Thirdly this Government is no different than a moderate Labour Government with its tax and spend policies, delivering the highest taxation rates seen for decades and a belief that raising taxes brings in revenue, despite continual Laffer curve evidence to the contrary. A good example being the North Sea Oil industry which has increased output, profits, and thus taxes paid since the 2016 budget when the Government inadvertently cut taxes on North Sea production and profits. Needless to say they are now considering putting them back up again.

Due to my third point many people will think that a Labour Government can't be that much worse and are more likely to vote for a change without realising quite how bad that would be. I'm not sure a centrist party would arise from that. Trying to be all things to all people leads to the kind of shower we've got now. The direction of travel appears to be more polarising to further left and right, we've seen less centrism in the US recently as an example.
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Old 22nd Aug 2018, 15:04
  #15503 (permalink)  
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From the new Statesman - the left wing equivalent of the Spectator.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ble-corbyn-MPs

Leaving Labour: why a party split is now inevitable

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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 07:10
  #15504 (permalink)  
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Looks like Jeremy Hunt is throwing his hat into the ring for the leadership. Could come down to a choice between him and Javid - and both desperately burnishing their claims to be brexiteers to gain membership votes......

https://www.politico.eu/article/jere...ithout-a-deal/

Jeremy Hunt: UK better off outside EU, even without a deal

LONDON — The U.K. will be “better off outside the EU,” even if it leaves the bloc with no deal, Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said Wednesday.

In the latest of several recent statements on the desirability or otherwise of a no-deal Brexit, Hunt told https://www.axios.com/jeremy-hunt-united-kingdom-trump-tariffs-russia-e43a3789-aa14-4472-8bf3-05e3c12d676f.html that, despite backing Remain at the 2016 referendum, he was now of the view that the U.K. is best served by leaving, whatever the outcome of negotiations. Hunt has previously outlined how his https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-hunt-pragmatist-banking-on-brexit-theresa-may-downing-street/, but his comments on the no-deal scenario have varied. Last week he wrote on
that Britain “WOULD survive and prosper without a deal” after telling ITV that no-deal “would be a mistake we would regret for generations.”

In his latest interview, Hunt also heaped praise on his predecessor Boris Johnson, who resigned last month in protest at Theresa May’s softening of her Brexit stance. Johnson has “changed the course of British history through his campaigning for Brexit,” Hunt said. Asked if Johnson, who is Conservative Party members’ favorite to replace May, would make a good prime minister, Hunt said: “I don’t agree with him on everything but, you know, who knows for the future?”.......

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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 07:43
  #15505 (permalink)  
 
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Hunt?

That nonentity would be even worse than the current mediocre incumbent.

Which village idiot could possibly have suggested to him that he has leadership qualities? He even makes JC look dynamic.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 07:47
  #15506 (permalink)  
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Indeed. tM should have proven to the rest of the party MOs that longevity in a cabinet post does not provide an indication of suitability to fill the top seat.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 10:37
  #15507 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst I am certainly one of those erstwhile Labour voters who have deserted due to JC I cannot say with any degree of certainty that I would not be tempted to offer my support again were either Boris or JRM take the helm. It would be a matter of deciding which is the less extreme. My instinct would be to support anyone but either of the two extreme parties but first past the post effectively prevents that being a strategy that stands any chance of success. Failing a realistic option of a third party Labour might be the only way of preventing a right wing takeover. Add to this a No Deal Brexit and a Labour administration could occur by default.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 10:47
  #15508 (permalink)  
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Whilst I am certainly one of those erstwhile Labour voters who have deserted due to JC I cannot say with any degree of certainty that I would not be tempted to offer my support again were either Boris or JRM take the helm. It would be a matter of deciding which is the less extreme.
An apposite time to crosspost from Guido Fawkes.....

https://order-order.com/2018/08/23/c...t-anti-semite/

Last night’s Channel 4 News didn’t exactly go to plan. First they wrongly introduced Hillary supporting, Democrat voting, Harvard Law School Emeritus Professor Alan Dershowitz as an ‘adviser to Donald Trump’, before he demolished their holier than thou attitude towards the state of U.S. politics.

“Where is the moral backbone of Great Britain to have as the head of the Labour Party a virulent anti-Semite, a virulent hater of Jews and the nation state of the Jewish people.

Don’t lecture us about our political system as long as you have Jeremy Corbyn who may potentially become the next Prime Minister of England. Shame on Great Britain for allowing that to come to pass.”
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 11:02
  #15509 (permalink)  
 
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When does a C4 news presenter feel that he has to become an apologist for Corbyn? Well, last night when he replied to the Prof's peroration with...

"He would be rejecting all those accusations, obviously...".

Funny that they ran out of time just when it was getting interesting.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 15:15
  #15510 (permalink)  
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It is worth remembering that the UK, being a Christian country, whose head of State is head of the Church, has had Jewish prime ministers but not a Roman Catholic one.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 16:08
  #15511 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
It is worth remembering that the UK, being a Christian country, whose head of State is head of the Church, has had Jewish prime ministers but not a Roman Catholic one.
Does that mean that the main parties are anti-papist?
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 16:08
  #15512 (permalink)  
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Disraeli was Anglican - the family converted when he was 12 years old - so in that respect, i.e. not officially, Tony Blair can equally said to have been Roman Catholic, even though he on.y officially converted after leaving office.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 16:40
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
It is worth remembering that the UK, being a Christian country, whose head of State is head of the Church, has had Jewish prime ministers but not a Roman Catholic one.
Blair hid his Catholicism until he left offce.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:13
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Blair hid his Catholicism until he left offce.
So he could seek absolution for his war crime?
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:19
  #15515 (permalink)  
 
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It seems the government have finally faced up to the reality of a no-deal Brexit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45274972
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:28
  #15516 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Disraeli was Anglican - the family converted when he was 12 years old - so in that respect, i.e. not officially, Tony Blair can equally said to have been Roman Catholic, even though he on.y officially converted after leaving office.
According to Wiki he was Jewish by birth. But either way he was Jewish when in office. TB, true to form, did not confess while in office. If Mrs TB was RC, by dictate the children should have been brought up Catholic. I think he should have converted after marriage. My mother was a Catholic but never followed the faith.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:43
  #15517 (permalink)  
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But either way he was Jewish when in office
No, he was baptised in 1817 and was a practicing Anglican.

Jewish by race - but Anglican by religion.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:50
  #15518 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
It seems the government have finally faced up to the reality of a no-deal Brexit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45274972
We await the 2019 versions of "Digging for Victory "..."How to fill a sandbag " ......... and similar helpful Gov't publications from the past....popping through the door......the cost of any of those former public education films would be far too prohibitive for today's media and advertising coverage.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:53
  #15519 (permalink)  
 
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So now we have Project Fear 2.0 Only this time it's official and far more frightening than the original version for the fact that it's real. I can't wait until half a million pearly kings and queens don't receive their pensions and arrive back in the UK bating for blood.

Blair a war criminal? Well no more so than Cameron and Hague for their Libyan adventure.
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Old 23rd Aug 2018, 17:56
  #15520 (permalink)  
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PN,

p.s. Jews were excluded from Parliament until 1858* - Disraeli was elected to represent Maidstone in 1837.

* Jews Relief Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_Relief_Act_1858
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