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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 3rd Aug 2018, 14:46
  #15321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Well that just repeats your claim - it doesn't explain why you need a trade deal to buy food on the world market. Why would a farmer in Spain refuse to sell us lettuce if we didn't have a trade deal with the EU?. If we can trade cars easily with countries who we dont have free trade deals agreed with why not carrots?
Because it does not fit in with the remain sides need to stay in, ergo, if we come out everything stops, or reduces to a level that we will find it difficult to live in the new dark age, and the UK descends to 3rd world country status, isolated from the rest of the world/Europe and economically ruined, never to recover, apparently.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 14:54
  #15322 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Well that just repeats your claim - it doesn't explain why you need a trade deal to buy food on the world market. Why would a farmer in Spain refuse to sell us lettuce if we didn't have a trade deal with the EU?. If we can trade cars easily with countries who we dont have free trade deals agreed with why not carrots?
You can trade almost anything if you are prepared to ... you can either stick with the proven system, or spend time and effort organising the new paperwork, paying the new tariffs and (especially with perishables) there is the whole issue of getting stuff from A to B without being encumbered by things like queues at ports, customs etc.

If its worth it and the consumer will pay Id guess the Spanish farmer will export to outside the EU, if it isnt worth his or her while I suspect they will look to increase market share within the EU.


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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 15:09
  #15323 (permalink)  
 
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If its worth it and the consumer will pay Id guess the Spanish farmer will export to outside the EU, if it isnt worth his or her while I suspect they will look to increase market share within the EU.
Until they run out of Scottish Shellfish.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 15:20
  #15324 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
You can trade almost anything if you are prepared to ... you can either stick with the proven system, or spend time and effort organising the new paperwork, paying the new tariffs and (especially with perishables) there is the whole issue of getting stuff from A to B without being encumbered by things like queues at ports, customs etc.

If its worth it and the consumer will pay Id guess the Spanish farmer will export to outside the EU, if it isnt worth his or her while I suspect they will look to increase market share within the EU.
Why would a Spanish farmer be bothered whether their crops are exported inside or outside the EU? All theyre interested in is selling their produce. The paperwork will be done by logistics companies, wholesalers, supermarkets etc. So if Tesco want to sell Spanish lettuce, theyll do whatever is necessary to make sure the documentation is in order.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 15:45
  #15325 (permalink)  
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The U.K. is currently importing a lot of its lettuce from the USA - the drought has decimated the Spanish harvest. IAG Air Cargo is flying in 30,000 head a week from SAN Francisco......
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 18:12
  #15326 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Why would a Spanish farmer be bothered whether their crops are exported inside or outside the EU? All theyre interested in is selling their produce. The paperwork will be done by logistics companies, wholesalers, supermarkets etc. So if Tesco want to sell Spanish lettuce, theyll do whatever is necessary to make sure the documentation is in order.
At a cost, which they will either have to absorb, or pass on to their UK customers. Do you believe logistics companies work for nothing?? (Fair do's, most of their customer appear to believe that!!).
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 18:55
  #15327 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


You can trade almost anything if you are prepared to ... you can either stick with the proven system, or spend time and effort organising the new paperwork, paying the new tariffs and (especially with perishables) there is the whole issue of getting stuff from A to B without being encumbered by things like queues at ports, customs etc.

If it’s worth it and the consumer will pay I’d guess the Spanish farmer will export to outside the EU, if it isn’t worth his or her while I suspect they will look to increase market share within the EU.




But for Spanish / Dutch / French / Italian farmers to increase market share inside the EU, then that increase would only come at the expense of reduced market share for other Spanish / Dutch / French / Italian farmers, no ?

Probably you and I have both carried 000s of tons of fruit and vegetables into the UK from Africa and Asia - and probaly the Americas as well in your own case. It's usually arrived on time to be in perfectly good condition to be edible and saleable, despite the additional paperwork and health inspections compared to EU grown fruit and vegetables, becuase it's picked and despatched at the time most approriate to ensure this.

Are EU farmers so cosseted or so dim that they can't manage to do the same themselves if the transit time into the UK might now be a few hours longer ??
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 19:02
  #15328 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
At a cost, which they will either have to absorb, or pass on to their UK customers.
Or they'll just buy it somewhere else.........
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 19:11
  #15329 (permalink)  
 
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There are also the options of:

1. Reduce the population (if the standard of living drops, many people with other citizenships will leave).
2. Make more food.

Given the will, Britain could become a world leader in high-efficiency food production, rather than whine about not having enough. Artificial meat doesn't seem far off, and a bunch of people have been working on growing food in cities in artificial environments.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 19:15
  #15330 (permalink)  
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I wonder which of the MSM such as the BBC, Grauniad etc this will lead with this story - outraged at even more interference by the Russians in UK politics - not.....

https://order-order.com/2018/08/03/w...tter-accounts/
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 19:53
  #15331 (permalink)  
 
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Well the more ardent remain voters have already sorted one population reduction solution, something to do with the age of those who voted exit, if I remember correctly, and was it not touted that all immigrants working here would not be allowed to stay and pick fruit and veg, work in the NHS, or look after the upper echelons children.

Also, as pointed out earlier farmers can start growing food on fields left fallow by taking payments under the CAP to not grow anything. Where there’s a will, there’s a way, unfortunately there is currently not the will from just under half the population who actually voted, and those in government are playing to those fears as they don't have what it takes to negotiate an exit properly.

Lets face it the European business men are not really going to take anymore notice of the EU than they do now, the only country who actually follows the rules is the UK, and we are trying to leave.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 23:55
  #15332 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The U.K. is currently importing a lot of its lettuce from the USA - the drought has decimated the Spanish harvest. IAG Air Cargo is flying in 30,000 head a week from SAN Francisco......
American lettuce? - is it pumped full of hormones and washed in chlorine?
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Old 4th Aug 2018, 11:29
  #15333 (permalink)  
 
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Immigration has always happened. Then under the Bliar/Broon government it became a flood with many of the 'safeguards' removed. It is exactly that extreme that has caused the 'extreme' attitudes to immigration that we have now, on both sides of politics. A return to what we had before those flood-gates were opened would keep most happy.
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Old 4th Aug 2018, 14:54
  #15334 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Probably you and I have both carried 000s of tons of fruit and vegetables into the UK from Africa and Asia - and probaly the Americas as well in your own case.
yep, lots green beans from Kenya etc..

My response was a reply to the comment (question?) asked about why e.g. a Spanish farmer couldn't sell lettuce to the UK post brexit...the answer is of course they will be able too, the issue is whether stepping outside the existing arrangements is going to increase costs and if it does...who pays?
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 06:39
  #15335 (permalink)  
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Adam Boulton in The Sunday Times:

.........Next month Corbyn will have been Labour leader for three years. He is not crazy. He knows what he knows. Hes against Israel, America, Trident missiles and capitalism. He wont condemn Hamas, Hezbollah, Vladimir Putin, Bashar al-Assad or the IRA. He hasnt changed and he wont change if he becomes prime minister.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 07:29
  #15336 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
yep, lots green beans from Kenya etc..

My response was a reply to the comment (question?) asked about why e.g. a Spanish farmer couldn't sell lettuce to the UK post brexit
Only if the lorry driver has successfully run the gauntlet of French farmers waiting to ambush him and destroy his cargo. Joined up EU?
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 09:15
  #15337 (permalink)  
 
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Does Boulton hope to qualify for some sort of journalistic prize, maybe the Stating the Obvious 2018 award?
Corbyn is mired on 40% in the polls. An election campaign might push that back a point or two. But UKIP has revived and the Lib Dems are back broaching double figures so that leaves around 80% of the vote up for grabs. Looks like another stalemate unless something occurs to break the log jam.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 09:26
  #15338 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Does Boulton hope to qualify for some sort of journalistic prize, maybe the Stating the Obvious 2018 award?
Corbyn is mired on 40% in the polls. An election campaign might push that back a point or two. But UKIP has revived and the Lib Dems are back broaching double figures so that leaves around 80% of the vote up for grabs. Looks like another stalemate unless something occurs to break the log jam.
That log jam will burst open in April next year. All bets are off then.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 09:34
  #15339 (permalink)  
 
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But what? May is in hock to the Tory Right, Corbyn to the left. Both seem committed to that whose name we dare not speak. We desperately need a third party.
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Old 5th Aug 2018, 09:56
  #15340 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
But what? May is in hock to the Tory Right, Corbyn to the left. Both seem committed to that whose name we dare not speak. We desperately need a third party.
You're right there. We do desperately need a responsible third party.
The Liberals and Libdems have had several resergences over many decades, but always fail to get into power. Will that be any different this time?

The next GE will be entirely unpredictable. Anything could happen. My own guess is for a Labour government, which would be a disaster.
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