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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 1st Aug 2018, 10:21
  #15281 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
Really??!!
Yes..

e.g. France, e.g just two of many examples..

de facto Border controls/passport checks introduced on many flights and at some land crossings despite pleas from "Brussels", and I bet Macron would happily pass the "blame" for the wildly unpopular but new 80km/h national speed limit Brussels..but he hasn't.

But if you continually want to blame Brussels for absolutely everything, well so be it.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 10:22
  #15282 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
What will the excuse be in a couple of years when we have 'taken back control'?
That is a very interesting question!! For 40 odd years the UK has sought to blame the EEC and then the EU for just about everything it dislikes. The blame for future bureaucratic nonsensical decisions will in all probably fall, where in all honesty it probably always should have, on the Civil Service, local authorities and bodies like the H&SE who have throughout that period managed to ensure the UK enforced every rule that came down from Brussels, with knobs on.

No other nation in Europe ever does / did that.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 12:01
  #15283 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
...

This whole Brexit hysteria is fast become comparable to the millenium bug. How silly you will all look in 10 years or so when we look back at all these predictions about running out of food, all flights being cancelled and all trade with the EU coming to an end.

...
Just the same as all those silly stories about how the world would end immediately after a possible 'leave' vote.


Happy Yorkshire Day, everyone!
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 12:15
  #15284 (permalink)  

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Now that we all have at least some idea just how difficult, expensive, foolish and inconvenient the
Brexit exercise is going to be why not admit that it was a BAD IDEA and have another Referendum?

Mac
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 12:40
  #15285 (permalink)  
 
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Oh well, if regaining our national sovereignty from an unelected dictatorship, which our parents were duped into joining is going to be difficult and inconvenient, then best we just wimp out, as you recommend.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 12:50
  #15286 (permalink)  
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On what?

The stated legal opinion from both sides in the Gina Miller case was A50 is irrevocable, which is also the view of the EU Commission. The legal opinion given to the EU Parliament states that it might be possible weigh the unanimous consent of the other 27 members - but would be sppealable by any EU citizen up to the ECJ. The timeframe for a decision by the Supreme Court and then the ECJ renders any referendum impractical before next March.

If revocation does does require unanimous consent many nations will have concessions they will demand - e.g. Spain will demand dual sovereignty over Gibraltar. Any such deal will require negotiation - and then what, a referendum on the deal offered before another referendum?

That is, of corse, if the want the UK back in. Many always saw the UK obstructive for many of their plans - a deal where the UK ihas to stay out but obey all the rules and pay full whack with no rebate and no bite or representation would suit many nations just fine.

What is before any arguments on the number and wording on any choices in any referenda, all of which would require a majority in the HoC to pass into law before a campaign could begin!!

Much as George Soros “Second Vote” campaign will ramp up during the summer - with planned mass marches to London by September to link with even more pushing of bad news, the legal and parliamentary timetables render it impossible.

And that is without both Labour and Conservative party leaders saying they are against it.


Last edited by ORAC; 1st Aug 2018 at 13:10.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 12:54
  #15287 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Ah the old excuse something in the U.K. isn’t working or isn’t popular... blame Brussels....
... usually for something that was our government's policy anyway.

They won't be able to do that if #brexit goes ahead - who will they blame then?
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 12:55
  #15288 (permalink)  
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How about the rest of Europe being given a referendum to find out if they actually want more Europe as is being forced through by the unelected few, or far less Europe such as a free trade zone and cooperation on projects of mutual interest such as Airbus? Why not ask them? I know why the commissioners won't allow that to happen, too scared of seeing their power-base evaporate.
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Old 1st Aug 2018, 16:50
  #15289 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...loss-estimate/

Oh dear, how inconvenient. In fact, if you put that figure against those job losses in the city after Labour had trashed our economy last time they were in it barely registers.

This whole Brexit hysteria is fast become comparable to the millenium bug. How silly you will all look in 10 years or so when we look back at all these predictions about running out of food, all flights being cancelled and all trade with the EU coming to an end.



Yet another good reason to be out of it. Make those in power take responsibility and actually make decisions rather than hiding behind a convenient barrier and blaming the EU. Is it any wonder so many civil servants are against Brexit?
Ah, well, now that you mention dire predictions, and everybody looking silly, perhaps out there are some more realistic people who aren't quite as befuddled in their anticipation of what is, potentially, to come.

And you may have missed the piece on C4 News a couple of nights ago, many on here do because it's allegedly wholly left wing orientated and that's more than sufficient for the JB social elite not to tune in, because it concerned insulin supplies and the potential detrimental effects on diabetics .....pure hysteria no doubt so nothing to worry about.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nrest-revealed

https://www.channel4.com/news/no-dea...y-be-disrupted
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 06:31
  #15290 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
The thing these articles all have in common is the constant use of phrases like may, might, could etc.

Posting links from the Guardian that basically says Brexit may cause a problem is hardly an argument against biased, anti Brexit hysteria is it.

It would seem those predictions of war in the streets, a doomed economy and mass job losses have been downgraded to 'We might need to stockpile insulin for a while'. It's looking more and more like a good deal to me.
Your astute observation of the phrases you quote is commendable .....apart from the fact you have failed to grasp the core reasons as to why concerns are being raised and the need for contingency planning as the date approaches still minus the little detail of clarity and a definitive policy.

Did the peach crop survive the recent rainfall intact and have you got any plans to establish an export business at all ?

Which leads to food, or rather for some in the UK, the lack of it. So it's nice to see the caring party, that's the current Gov't of course, bunging just short of a quarter of a million .....no maths pedants please....on a survey to confirm what has long been established for many .....the savage cuts to benefits for those most in need in UK society.

Please note, UK society is reality based and not the JB utopian fantasy version.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-food-bank-use
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 07:55
  #15291 (permalink)  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...loss-estimate/

City of London slashes Brexit job-loss estimate

LONDON — The U.K. financial services sector could suffer as few as 5,000 job losses as a result of Brexit, according to a new estimate by the City of London Corporation — far lower than the industry had initially feared.

The figures come from an internal City report, to be released in September.

In an interview with POLITICO, Lord Mayor of the City of London Charles Bowman said the analysis estimates that between 5,000 and 13,000 jobs will have gone by the U.K.’s leaving date of March 30 next year. That is far lower than most previous estimates. In a widely cited report published in 2016, Oliver Wyman estimated that industry job losses could eventually be as high as 75,000 with banks and other institutions forced to move large numbers of staff to locations in the EU27. Xavier Rolet, the former chief executive of the London Stock Exchange, predicted job losses of over 200,000. But the Bank of England has estimated Day One job losses of around 10,000 in the case of a hard Brexit.

In the two years following the U.K.’s EU referendum though, the much-feared exodus of bankers and financiers from London has not materialized. Firms are moving some operations, including trading and back-office functions, to cities in the EU27 like Frankfurt, Dublin and Paris, but there hasn’t been an uprooting of banks’ entire presence from the U.K. to the Continent. Bowman said that so far, 1,600 jobs have been earmarked to move.........
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 08:38
  #15292 (permalink)  
 
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The stated legal opinion from both sides in the Gina Miller case was A50 is irrevocable, which is also the view of the EU Commission.
That got my interest so I "had a look".
Here's what the EU say in the original Article 50:
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
That doesn't seem to mention changing one's mind. It is clear in the last paragraph that if you change your mind after leaving, you will be subject to the usual entry qualifications/processes.
Article 50
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 11:54
  #15293 (permalink)  
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That doesn't seem to mention changing one's mind. It is clear in the last paragraph that if you change your mind after leaving, you will be subject to the usual entry qualifications/processes.
One of the arguments for it being revocable is that it doesn't say it isn't. The counter argument is that it is implicit in paragraph 3 - otherwise the declaration could be withdrawn then submitted again a few years or months later resetting the clock without requiring the assent of any other member, let alone a unanimous vote.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 12:16
  #15294 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
Kent is perfect for growing
You've obviously missed that it's going to be turned into a lorry park.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 12:56
  #15295 (permalink)  
 
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How did we ever manage to feed ourselves before we joined the EEC?

And how do non-EU members manage to feed themselves??
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 13:27
  #15296 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
And how do non-EU members manage to feed themselves??

They buy from the world market...oooh...errr...
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 14:31
  #15297 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
They buy from the world market...oooh...errr...
But the UK apparently either won't be able too, because we won't have actually left the EU and they won't let us, or post Brexit are considered by some as not having the ability/capability/gumption to live and do business outside of EU control, or probably too lazy due to the long term dependency of not having to think, or make decisions for themselves.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 15:06
  #15298 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
How did we ever manage to feed ourselves before we joined the EEC?
Actually, we didn't!
In two world wars, with strict food rationing and everyone 'digging for victory', we faced starvation if the food imports had been cut off by German submarines.
And we now have much less land under cultivation.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 15:11
  #15299 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Actually, we didn't!
In two world wars, with strict food rationing and everyone 'digging for victory', we faced starvation if the food imports had been cut off by German submarines.
And we now have much less land under cultivation.
Are you expecting a fleet of U-Boats to start cruising around the North Atlantic when we leave?.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 15:13
  #15300 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Are you expecting a fleet of U-Boats to start cruising around the North Atlantic when we leave?.
The point, in case you did actually miss it, is that we cannot feed ourselves.
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