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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 7th Jul 2018, 15:20
  #14761 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Are some people here really saying that even if every indicator and every international business said stop Brsxit they would plow on regrdless just because of a close vote that the Russians dabbled with and financed one side, breaking funding rules and allowing blatant lies to be told in the certainty there would be no come back .
Yes, they are.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2018, 16:05
  #14762 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Are some people here really saying that even if every indicator and every international business said stop Brsxit they would plow on regrdless just because of a close vote that the American President dabbled with and financed one side, breaking funding rules and allowing blatant lies to be told in the certainty there would be no come back .

Is nt that dereliction of duty/mis conduct in public office or is it just part before country and 'me' before party politics
It works both ways: the EU is a corrupt, bloated hegemony intent on subjugation of every member state. It is the natural successor to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and we all know how that ended.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 17:15
  #14763 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Are some people here really saying that even if every indicator and every international business said stop Brsxit they would plow on regrdless just because of a close vote that the Russians dabbled with and financed one side, breaking funding rules and allowing blatant lies to be told in the certainty there would be no come back .

Is nt that dereliction of duty/mis conduct in public office or is it just part before country and 'me' before party politics
Short memory?

You make it sound like the people who claimed we would go bust within months of the leave vote actually knew what they were talking about and should be listened to

The established economic 'experts' have been routinely getting it wrong for decades, the whole financial sector advised by these 'experts' had to be bailed out by the public purse to survive their last monumental **** up
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 17:49
  #14764 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Are some people here really saying that even if every indicator and every international business said stop Brsxit they would plow on regrdless just because of a close vote that the Russians dabbled with and financed one side, breaking funding rules and allowing blatant lies to be told in the certainty there would be no come back .

Is nt that dereliction of duty/mis conduct in public office or is it just part before country and 'me' before party politics
Would you like to point out where every indicator and international business are saying this? Or are you just still bitter that remain lost fair and square in a democratic vote?
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 18:14
  #14765 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
By knowingly proposing something that the EU has been saying for the last two years is impossible it seems clear to me that the UK is deliberately going for a no-deal crash-out..
Which was my reasoning for putting my money on the Hotel California option! The PM has nailed her "soft brexit" colours to the mast, indicating that she won't allow the UK to crash out with now deal. What she's come up with is is yet more cherry picking and having our cake and eating it. The logical consequence is an extension to the transitional period for as long as it takes to negotiate what she wants, or until polls indicate decisively that the population has had a change of opinion on EU membership. Provided the UK carries on paying the bill they EU will be able to live with that.

Brussels knows this, and will probably play the long game themselves. They'd rather have the UK half -in-half-out where, quite frankly, we can't try and influence policy, whilst hoping the UK population has a change of mind. The interesting thing then is how hard a bargain the EU would drive ref. the Euro and Schengen amongst others to restore UK membership. I would suggest there wouldn't be much room for compromise.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 18:24
  #14766 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
an extension to the transitional period for as long as it takes
Don't extensions to the (as yet not agreed) transitional period have to come in seven year chunks, being the EU budget cycle?
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 18:25
  #14767 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Are some people here really saying that even if every indicator and every international business said stop Brsxit they would plow on regrdless just because of a close vote that the Russians dabbled with and financed one side, breaking funding rules and allowing blatant lies to be told in the certainty there would be no come back .
Well both sides lied and the current campaign to ignore the referendum is funded by a Hungarian/US shady Billionaire - how is that for foreigners interfering..
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 18:56
  #14768 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Don't extensions to the (as yet not agreed) transitional period have to come in seven year chunks, being the EU budget cycle?
Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me, but then again some rules are probably more flexible than others. I know currently the EU wants shot of the UK by 31 December 2020. I believe the transitional period is only "not agreed" in the context the "nothing is agree until everything is agreed".

I do wonder how, given the divergent views of the PM and her Brexit negotiator on the kind of Brexit that the UK wants, how David Davis can possibly remain in the job. His political capital is significant diminished, just as the PM's is enhanced. Perhaps she'll take over as lead negotiator, or appoint a more reliable person (someone more in tune with her objectives). I don't believe the likes of Johnson, Fox and Davis have signed up to her plan willingly and could so easily sabotage it, and probably would, given the chance.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 19:09
  #14769 (permalink)  
 
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I have a strong suspicion that a good number of the 17 million plus who voted to leave are so disillusioned with the way Brexit has been handled they will not bother voting again as what is the point if the wishes of the biggest turn out in uk voting history are largely ignored. The biggest loser is democracy and that should be concern for all.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 21:43
  #14770 (permalink)  
 
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What astounds me is the number of people who seem to think that the world comes to an end without the EU.

And the EU is sinking...
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 07:23
  #14771 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by paulc View Post
I have a strong suspicion that a good number of the 17 million plus who voted to leave are so disillusioned with the way Brexit has been handled they will not bother voting again as what is the point if the wishes of the biggest turn out in uk voting history are largely ignored. The biggest loser is democracy and that should be concern for all.
I think you're totally correct What may happen if this continues is a resurgence for UKIP,, especially if Nigel returns with an 'I told you that you can't trust your mainstream politicians, not a single one' type of message.
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 08:50
  #14772 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
I think you're totally correct What may happen if this continues is a resurgence for UKIP
If you look at local by-election results there seems to be (although other interpretations are possible) a large movement of UKIP voters to Labour. Which makes sense, as Labour are now wanting a harder #brexit than the Tories.
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 08:52
  #14773 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
And the EU is sinking...
Let's hope the EU rats go down with the ship.
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 09:12
  #14774 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
If you look at local by-election results there seems to be (although other interpretations are possible) a large movement of UKIP voters to Labour. Which makes sense, as Labour are now wanting a harder #brexit than the Tories.
Do you really think that what Tories want, or Labour want, or UKIP want, will make any difference to the result?
The result is already clear.
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 10:02
  #14775 (permalink)  
 
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Good too see Boris driven away from Chequers in BMW -but then he is Mr Hypocrisy after all. Michael Gove retians his position as Mr Flip Flop by generally supporting Mays proposals . Liam Fox and david davies appear to have been sent to Siberia as both are now invisible after their uselessness has finally become apparent

Again this shos up the problems with the UKs adversarial poliitcal system

Half the Tories are pro Eu half the labour party is pro EU so no one party can promote leave or stay .

The Tories are terrified Corbyn will win a general election so wont have one

Labour want an election but only when things have got so bad-which they will -that they will be a shoe in because it will be obvious that the Tories f--ked everything up.

So we all lose and its our own fault-we had a centrist aprty who did the right thing in forming a government witht he conservatives rather than putting their party interests first and got wiped out for doing so..

News Flash? May to visit Moscow if 'our boys' ( replace with any other 1966 or WW2 nickname) get to the final ?

.
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 10:05
  #14776 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Do you really think that what Tories want, or Labour want, or UKIP want, will make any difference to the result?
The result is already clear.
Depends what you mean by "the result". For some politicians winning votes today (never mind anything that might happen tomorrow) is "the result".
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2018, 11:08
  #14777 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Depends what you mean by "the result". For some politicians winning votes today (never mind anything that might happen tomorrow) is "the result".
"The result that dare not speak its name"
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 11:13
  #14778 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Let's hope the EU rats go down with the ship.
But some here have quite an emotional attachment to those rats!
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 12:18
  #14779 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:

Good too see Boris driven away from Chequers in BMW -but then he is Mr Hypocrisy

Well he could have used a Jaguar oh thatís Indian owned.

A Ford -American

A Vauxhall - American

A Roller - German

A - Bentley - German

A good old Mini - German

Maybe a Morgan thatís Welsh does that count?
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 12:22
  #14780 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
"The result that dare not speak its name"
(1) Rejection by EU of yesterday's impossible fudge
(2) No-deal crash out
(3) Economic catastrophe
(4) Re-run of IMF bail-out ('cos we're rejected EU help)
(5) Re-join campaign
(6) Referendum
(7) Re-join
(8) Schengen, Euro, no rebate, no opt-outs

That the one you had in mind?
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  

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