Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 30th Apr 2018, 15:07
  #14281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Good to see Barry Gardiner on Daily Politics today. After he rubbished his leader’s policy on Br**it I expected him to be carted off never to be seen again.

But the momentum re-education camp seems to have done its work. Barry was right on the Party line but, worryingly, a bit swivel-eyed and agitated unlike the former level-headed Barry.
Dutystude is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2018, 15:07
  #14282 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,903
I’m struggling with that too. How can someone who’s lived, been educated and worked in U.K. their entire life not possess any documentary evidence of the fact, irrespective of how incompetent the Home Office may be?
ShotOne is online now  
Old 30th Apr 2018, 16:02
  #14283 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 54
Posts: 816
Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
I’m struggling with that too. How can someone who’s lived, been educated and worked in U.K. their entire life not possess any documentary evidence of the fact, irrespective of how incompetent the Home Office may be?
I don’t know how old you are, but can you provide 4 pieces of evidence per year to prove that you normally resident in the UK - eg you didn’t go abroad for a year in 1967? I know I can’t!
Curious Pax is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2018, 16:28
  #14284 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,517
Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post


I don’t know how old you are, but can you provide 4 pieces of evidence per year to prove that you normally resident in the UK - eg you didn’t go abroad for a year in 1967? I know I can’t!
As you rightly say the requirement was/is four pieces of documentation, per year, from the year zero, to the present date.

I wonder many of us here could actually do that........you’re probably lucky to have a birth certificate for year zero....if your parents held your documents covering e.g healthcare how many here would still have access to them?
wiggy is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2018, 19:25
  #14285 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
Personally I think that Amber Rudd to Sajid Javid is a retrograde step. I don't like the cut of the fellows jib.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2018, 19:36
  #14286 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Longton, Lancs, UK
Age: 75
Posts: 1,520
don’t know how old you are, but can you provide 4 pieces of evidence per year to prove that you normally resident in the UK - eg you didn’t go abroad for a yet a ridiculous questionI ar in 1967? I know I can’t!
As you rightly say the requirement was/is four pieces of documentation, per year, from the year zero, to the present date.

I wonder many of us here could actually do that........you’re probably lucky to have a birth certificate for year zero....if your parents held your documents covering e.g healthcare how many here would still have access to them?
If you are unable to comply with either of these 'requirements' then you are probably here illegally- or simply illegal.

Last edited by jindabyne; 30th Apr 2018 at 20:15.
jindabyne is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2018, 21:38
  #14287 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,517
With regard to the 4 documents per year and...

Originally Posted by jindabyne View Post
If you are unable to comply with either of these 'requirements' then you are probably here illegally- or simply illegal.
Really? Well if I had to produce 4 documents per annum proving my residence over the last 60 plus years that’s me bang to rights....I must truely be a bad person.

Given my parents are both deceased and the family home and contents went years ago, all family doctors and teachers long dead, first two schools(infant & junior) now bulldozed....utility bills with family names on from the 50’s - long gone, school reports from the 60’s hand written on a piece of A4 - gone...No doubt the same with early medical records that were no doubt held on a cardex somewhere....not a chance, I reckon I’d struggle to find any personal records in any quantity until the mid seventies when hopefully things like my HM forces service record might be on file somewhere and if the authorities decided to be helpful maybe they might be able to produce a copy...

I bet I’m not the only one here in that situation...shall I hand myself in?




Last edited by wiggy; 1st May 2018 at 10:07.
wiggy is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2018, 21:43
  #14288 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,437
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Gertrude,

Are you suggesting that is the secret intention of the Labour Party if they regain power?

Both signatories of the letter being ex-Labour party Home Secretaries....
No. I know my Labour MP is in favour of ID cards - I've heard him say so (and argued against him) in a public meeting. There's nothing secret about it at all.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2018, 21:44
  #14289 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,437
Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
National ID cards are issued in every EU country except Denmark, Ireland and the UK. Therefore, by your logic, it is the majority of the EU that is the "police state", not the UK.
Yes. I wasted half a day of a holiday by being arrested (or possibly not, we couldn't find out) by French police for not taking our passports with us to the beach.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 1st May 2018, 07:22
  #14290 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,903
I’m in 100% agreement with you on ID cards Gertrude. In any case we all generate multiple proofs of our presence here every single day. Every time we use a bank card, pay tax, receive benefits, receive medical treatment, pay rent etc etc. Of course we don’t know what tick-box Home Office staff were instructed to follow but its hardly likely this was micro-managed at s political level
ShotOne is online now  
Old 1st May 2018, 07:40
  #14291 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,193
Quotes from Sajid Javid, the new Home Secretary....

On his father’s arrival in Britain with £1 in his pocket: “This is the root of my conservative beliefs. My mother and father had nothing and, like many people in their adopted country, worked their way up … I believe that what worked for my family and me works for everyone in the U.K.”

On being called ‘Paki’ by a schoolmate: “I did what any cool, calm future Cabinet minister would do. I hit him. And then he hit me and I hit him back. And things sort of went downhill from there.”

On the Windrush scandal: “It immediately impacted me … When I heard about the Windrush issue I thought that could be my mum, it could be my dad, it could be my uncle, it could be me.”

On immigration: “Many people throughout Britain are concerned about excessive immigration. And they should be. Politicians do need to respond.”

On integration: “We should do more to ensure that those who settle here and integrate with us respect our culture, traditions and values, and make greater efforts to learn our language … Successive governments have followed a misguided policy of multiculturalism. Rather than helping to bring people of different cultures together, the policy has acted to divide them.”

On modern-day migrants: “When my parents left their homeland in the 1960s to settle in the U.K., they brought with them a deep respect and love for Britain. Sadly, too few migrants share that approach today.”

On 20 years as an investment banker: “I gave up a lucrative career in finance … Being seen as an investment banker was not the most useful thing on the campaign trail, but it helped prepare me for a profession not well-liked by the general public.”

On becoming an MP: “I was driving home from the count, and I turned to my wife and said ‘Laura, did you ever imagine, in your wildest dreams, that one day I would actually be a member of parliament?’ And she looked me in the eye and said: ‘Darling, in my wildest dreams, you don’t feature at all.’”........

ORAC is online now  
Old 1st May 2018, 07:42
  #14292 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,193
On Newsnight last night, Shadow International Trade Secretary Barry Gardiner made clear he believes Labour should revive ID cards. “You need to try and have a system that can establish who is here legally,” he said. Asked directly if he was supporting ID cards, Gardiner replied: “Well … it was a policy the Labour Party had in 2009. Theresa May when she became home secretary actually abolished that policy. But it would have given the government a way of knowing through those biometric ID cards who was here legally and who wasn’t.” Asked again if he was backing ID cards, Gardiner replied: “We need to have much better ways of tracking people through the system.”
ORAC is online now  
Old 1st May 2018, 08:20
  #14293 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Quotes from Sajid Javid, the new Home Secretary....

On integration: “We should do more to ensure that those who settle here and integrate with us respect our culture, traditions and values, and make greater efforts to learn our language … Successive governments have followed a misguided policy of multiculturalism. Rather than helping to bring people of different cultures together, the policy has acted to divide them.”

On modern-day migrants: “When my parents left their homeland in the 1960s to settle in the U.K., they brought with them a deep respect and love for Britain. Sadly, too few migrants share that approach today.”
There are significant 'ghettos' in some towns (such as Luton) where immigrants and second generation 'foreigners' live their lives according to their 'heritage' and not as English people would - retaining their language and dress rather than integrating.
Whilst this initially can seem interesting, it ultimately breeds resentment and contempt on both sides.
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 1st May 2018, 08:40
  #14294 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,666
Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
There are significant 'ghettos' in some towns (such as Luton) where immigrants and second generation 'foreigners' live their lives according to their 'heritage' and not as English people would - retaining their language and dress rather than integrating.
Whilst this initially can seem interesting, it ultimately breeds resentment and contempt on both sides.
They exist in most large towns and cities where migrants have settled. Leicester, Birmingham, Derby, Bradford, Malaga, Jeddah, Doha etc. The last three with British migrants doing exactly what we lambaste migrants to the UK of doing. Same situation; living in foreign country with different customs, markedly different religions, and (to the migrants) a language they don't want to learn.

I don't defend either - you move to a country, you learn the language, observe their customs and rules and respect their religion and most importantly you integrate into their society.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 1st May 2018, 09:44
  #14295 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,903
Mostly agreed, AT but Brits in Jeddah or Doha can hardly integrate however much they’d like to, nor is there any question of their enjoying any “rights”

Why was the case for ID cards being put by the shadow TRADE secretary in Newsnight yesterday?. Surely that ought to fall to our eloquent and capable shadow HOME secretary.
ShotOne is online now  
Old 1st May 2018, 10:00
  #14296 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,666
Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Mostly agreed, AT but Brits in Jeddah or Doha can hardly integrate however much they’d like to, nor is there any question of their enjoying any “rights”

Why was the case for ID cards being put by the shadow TRADE secretary in Newsnight yesterday?. Surely that ought to fall to our eloquent and capable shadow HOME secretary.
The ones in on the Costa Del Sol could - but mostly decide instead to hunker down in their British enclaves.

I think the Shadow Home Secretary had probably done enough damage yesterday morning, not even Corbyn and his cronies could be so stupid as to put her out twice in one day, especially with a rather more combative interviewer!!

Personally, I can't see the problem with ID cards, we all carry "ID" with us by default anyway, insofar as our phones, assuming they are on, track to within quite narrow parameters our location at any given time, and HMG can find out, if they want exactly who we've phoned and texted, and when. Then there's the totally unacceptable amount of covert filming that goes on through CCTV. Having ID, and being required to produce it when using government services, or participating in elections is a small, probably far less onerous intrusion into our lives than modern technology and there might just be a silver lining in that it might just stop commercial and other organisations calling for countless pieces of ID before permitting us to open bank accounts, take credit, etc. I believe it was Tory policy at one stage, perhaps under Michael Howard's tenure ship at the helm, can't readily recall which failure was in charge then.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 1st May 2018, 10:17
  #14297 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 937
Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Mostly agreed, AT but Brits in Jeddah or Doha can hardly integrate however much they’d like to, nor is there any question of their enjoying any “rights”

Why was the case for ID cards being put by the shadow TRADE secretary in Newsnight yesterday?. Surely that ought to fall to our eloquent and capable shadow HOME secretary.
Should that not be the current Home Secretary or either of his two predecessors ?.....non of whom could be described in such glowing and flattering terms, although the speech in the House of Commons shown yesterday was truly, erm, "moving " and will doubtless appeal to those in the electorate who are prone to believing in such heartfelt piety uttered in times of crisis......the crisis in this case being the now even more tenuous retention of a former Home Secretary in a position well beyond her capabilities.

Nice piece in the Guardian for some to think about.....and please note one rather definitive term....."at the invitation of "

As for UK ID cards, I'm sure one of the (many) reasons including costs was the fact the card would have, in theory, contained rather too much personal information and there were concerns about the number of "stakeholders " who wished to have access to this information.

https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2018/apr/30/how-the-windrush-scandal-showed-the-guardian-holding-power-to-account-katharine-viner

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 1st May 2018 at 12:47.
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 1st May 2018, 11:05
  #14298 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
Posts: 1,859
I believe that one of the difficulties with the planned ID card was that there were difficulties with other IT systems (such as the one that was going to integrate medical records between GPs and hospitals) - and I'm sure that there were others that were discontinued.
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 1st May 2018, 12:32
  #14299 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 1,833
Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Surely that ought to fall to our eloquent and capable shadow HOME secretary.
I'm told Piers Morgan (t**t) put her through the wringer again earlier, re: Labour's immigration/removals policy. And he didn't even ask her a sums question neither!

CG
charliegolf is offline  
Old 1st May 2018, 13:47
  #14300 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Mexico
Posts: 74
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Quotes from Sajid Javid, the new Home Secretary....
Sounds like a guy with a pretty good sense fo humor who would be fun to have a beer with
Highway1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.