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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 6th Feb 2018, 17:19
  #13681 (permalink)  
 
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....that's probably just me and my enquiring mind not being prepared as I say to take any and everything at face value.
Unless it is in the Guardian it appears.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 17:31
  #13682 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Just google Bristol anti-fascist. It'll take you straight there; they're clearly proud of their nights work. Indeed they'd probably be upset at your inane bid to give the "credit" to those they describe as "Hitler-loving scum".

JRM is a leading politician. It's entirely normal for press to be at a meeting he was addressing. As for assuming guilt, I have no stance on who pushed who first but the "anti-fascists" are undeniably guilty of forcing their way into a meeting, masked up, with the sole intention of shouting down those speaking. Had it not been for the press and TV cameras, that would have been the end of the meeting: job done for the extremists. As has been "successfully" achieved many times against non-Momentum Labour figures
Well first, thanks for enlightening me as to JRM's standing.....I would never have known this was the case.

True, the media do cover political events, but as this was , again, a low key event, then they are generally the local or national UK media, not an organisation reporting matters for a USA audience.

I haven't, as you put it, given "credit " to whoever the protestors were...and to judge from the video they hardly forced their way in....but forced does sound suitably emotive ( remarkably similar to the tone of the Breitbart report in fact...funny that ) for a target audience here on JB.

I have done a quick search as you suggested, but for the "many times" Momentum have disrupted political meetings. Thus far, I'm having difficulty in finding such examples which is strange given you state these disruptions are commonplace and frequent.

But it's very gracious of you not to pass judgment as to whom started the pushing.... or the punch thrown by white shirt man.

What's also interesting, is, given your stance on matters, you visited an anti-fascist website but are reluctant to provide the link.

The protestors could well have come from such a group but thus far, the event has become very quiet in the mainstream media and some media outlets would be more than capable of determining...their readers would be appalled if they didn't after all....who was responsible.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 07:09
  #13683 (permalink)  
 
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Back to good old Carillion: Did anyone see the joint committees grilling a handful of their execs yesterday? I watched for quite some time (yes, I know, I ought to get out more!) the session with the interim Chief Exec and the previous Financial Director plus his replacement. One thing that was obvious was the inability, or perhaps reluctance) of the execs to give a straight answer to straight questions. Rachel Reeves was pretty good at getting some answers though and was able to expose what some may cause a bit of accounting mischief. The most interesting was the point (raised in a previous session with the Chairman of the pension trustees) about the company balance sheet. It apparently listed £1.4Billion on the assets side of the sheet under "Goodwill". When this had been raised with the pension trustee previously, he was asked what is and who sets the value of this "goodwill". His answer amounted to "Err, erm, humm, haw, waffle etc". Eventually he conceded it was a number arrived at by the board in cahoots with their accountants. Shades of "magic money trees" here.
It transpires that the ex Financial Director was sacked by the board less than a year after they had appointed him, primarily because he had pointed out the Emperor's lack of clothes. Of course, he didn't mention his previous role as financial controller.
The erstwhile Chief Exec eventually admitted Carillion were banking money they had not yet received.
He also admitted the company was paying good dividends at the same time they were unable to make other payments.
One interesting point about the session was the cross-party agreement across the committee, with Labour, Conservative and even SNP giving the execs a proper roasting.
Oh yes, and they claimed their huge salaries and bonuses were richly deserved and fairly earned. Not only that, they expect to continue to draw salaries until July this year.
An interesting can of worms is being opened here and the final outcome will be interesting to see.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 08:55
  #13684 (permalink)  
 
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So, Carillion was a can of worms it turns out. Now it's gone bust. It's investors and bankers have deservedly lost billions. Had it been an in-house government agency as Corbyn says he'll do, the taxpayer would now be having to find those billions. From money meant for schools and hospitals. Is that what you want?

More examples of hard-left bullying and intimidation? Why not ask Claire Kober, Labour leader of Haringey council, until she finally threw in the towel after a vicious campaign of harassment and intimidation; meetings drowned out by deafening protest, repeated singing of "every move you make" (about stalking if it needs spelling out) and emails demanding she kill herself or be expelled from the party. Although Krystal and his chums will probably explain how she stage-managed all that herself...
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 09:01
  #13685 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
So, Carillion was a can of worms it turns out. Now it's gone bust. It's investors and bankers have deservedly lost billions. Had it been an in-house government agency as Corbyn says he'll do, the taxpayer would now be having to find those billions. From money meant for schools and hospitals. Is that what you want?

More examples of hard-left bullying and intimidation? Why not ask Claire Kober, Labour leader of Haringey council, until she finally threw in the towel after a vicious campaign of harassment and intimidation; meetings drowned out by deafening protest, repeated singing of "every move you make" (about stalking if it needs spelling out) and emails demanding she kill herself or be expelled from the party.
I'm very well aware of Haringey, it's been widely publicised after all, but, one prominent occurrence doesn't constitute multiple occurrences as you stated...unless my understanding of English is flawed of course.

Anyway, back to JRM and a possible reason for Breitbarts presence, Breitbarts target audience being decidedly right wing as we know, and not forgetting the helpful inputs across the pond by Faux News / N.Farage in respect of Brexit so why not attend a pretty ordinary meeting....you never know what might happen to alter the mundane after all.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...shaping-brexit
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 09:45
  #13686 (permalink)  
 
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Prophead: "Trying to use this as a reason to avoid privatisation..." was not my argument in this case. Although, come to think of it, it would make a good candidate. Isn't it about time people faced up to the fact that British industry is generally led by idiots? Why else does UK industry suffer from constant labour disputes? Why else do UK firms have what must be a world record history of asset stripping, followed by sell outs to foreign owners? (And the foreign owners often, not always, go on to make a good fist of things).
In the case of Carillion, it is beginning to seem obvious that the board's first priority was to cut whatever corners, pull whatever strokes to make things look good for the shareholders, pay out handsome dividends and gain brownie points for themselves. Does UK industry really want more of that?
How about the railway fiasco on the East Coast main line? When run by a nationalised operator, East Coast, it paid over £1Billion to the treasury. Beardy Trains seems to have gone the other way, sticking out a hand to the treasury, begging for a break. It turns out this was due to the majority partner, Stagecoach, failing to meet its financial obligations. Note, nothing to do with infrastructure issues.
I am sure privatisation can work in some circumstances and others are better suited to government operation. In the case of PFI (a Gordon Brown disaster), building hospitals, schools, HM Forces accommodation etc, privatisation is completely the wrong choice.
Has anyone heard of the MoD "White Fleet"? I don't know who operates that these days but it used to be a conglomerate including Avis! Avis operating the Army's cars, vans and trucks!
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 09:49
  #13687 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
...More examples of hard-left bullying and intimidation?...
Would you like a re-upload of that video which showed a hard-right spokesperson issuing threats.
How was a fringe event attended by a prospective Tory leadership candidate allowed to become
a platform for extremists? The issue is not fanatics from the far-left or far-right, but the loss of
centre politics in the UK, and whether a new party can be formed in time to fill that void before
the disaster of abandoning EU Membership.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 10:22
  #13688 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by sfm818 View Post
Would you like a re-upload of that video which showed a hard-right spokesperson issuing threats.
How was a fringe event attended by a prospective Tory leadership candidate allowed to become
a platform for extremists? The issue is not fanatics from the far-left or far-right, but the loss of
centre politics in the UK, and whether a new party can be formed in time to fill that void before
the disaster of abandoning EU Membership.
A new party isn't really feasible.......however, the removal and negation of the hard core Brexit factions within our current Gov't would go a long way to resolving the current state of, almost, anarchy that masquerades as cohesion within the Tory party with more than a few external contributors and influential voices adding to the toxic mix.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 11:47
  #13689 (permalink)  
 
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"Removal and negation of....". Presumably by hoods in balaclavas, Krystal?

Nor is Labour's position any clearer; even now can you even tell us whether or not they would keep us in CU?

I'm pleased that all parties joined in the verbal shoeing of Carillion execs, since Labour and Conservative parties all handed multiple billion-pound contracts to them. And not forgetting Lib-dems too under the coalition. -Just in case anyone was seeking to use the sorry issue for party-political point scoring. Come to that, the SNP could teach all of them a few things about abysmal oversight of large public contracts. Ask them how much they eventually paid for the Scottish Parliament building!

Last edited by ShotOne; 7th Feb 2018 at 11:59.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 11:55
  #13690 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Presumably by hoods in balaclavas, Krystal?
Won't they bump into things?

CG
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 12:39
  #13691 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Prophead: Isn't it about time people faced up to the fact that British industry is generally led by idiots?
I can't speak for all of British Industry, however, having spent over 40 years in the construction and energy sector I would suggest the idiots took over after the 2008 crash. A lot of good people left the industry when work completely dried up.

The vacuum created at the top sucked in individuals who had no idea what their core business was and were more interested in pandering to the stock market and building corporate giants. I saw energy companies trying to be construction companies and vice vera, all doomed to failure. Carillion even admitted to the select committee that the purchase of an energy company back in 2011 was the start of the downfall. Anyone who knew that market back then could see that was a big mistake.

These corporate individuals still have no idea what they did wrong and will continue to collect their high salaries and bonuses elsewhere under the illusion they bring value, whatever that is.

Whether it's private or public giants they should be run by professionals who know what they are doing and more importantly WHY they are doing it.

The select committee questioning showed these individuals were way out of their depth at running a large construction company, sadly it's becoming the norm.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 13:17
  #13692 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
"Removal and negation of....". Presumably by hoods in balaclavas, Krystal?
I think that Mr Corbyn has some 'friends' who could help you out with that..
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 13:34
  #13693 (permalink)  
 
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Come to that, the SNP could teach all of them a few things about abysmal oversight of large public contracts. Ask them how much they eventually paid for the Scottish Parliament building!
That was not under the control of the SNP then. It was a Labour/LibDem coalition that built it
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 14:38
  #13694 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by scr1 View Post
That was not under the control of the SNP then. It was a Labour/LibDem coalition that built it
I believe from memory it was also awarded by the coalition procurement department on a cost-plus basis contract such that any changes requested by the client went charged as extra to the contract. There were a great many changes by the client so the extra costs quickly began to exceed the original cost. No incentive to try and absorb or reject changes. Just like the old PSA days.

Completely mismanaged by both private and public sector as the subsequent enquiry discovered.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 14:47
  #13695 (permalink)  
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Timeline of cost increases.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 15:08
  #13696 (permalink)  
 
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From the Fraser Enquiry into the Scottish Parliament project.

Following publication of the report, Jack McConnell stated that the Fraser recommendations would be fully implemented, and that fundamental reform of the civil service was already under way, with trained professionals being recruited to handle such projects.

That worked out well then. Lessons were obviously forgotten when it came to the current crop of large public sector contracts.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 16:23
  #13697 (permalink)  
 
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Prophead: I have to say I agree with more or less all of your reply. In fact, I think the only bit I would differ on would be the extent of the unions' guilt. I would say they were indeed responsible for a great deal of industrial catastrophes. In my brief spell at Ford in Halewood in the 1970s, I was fascinated to watch the machinations of the company trying to push the unions INTO strike action! The reason was that strikes elsewhere were causing difficulties to Ford and they were rapidly running out of storage space for the Escorts & Capris that kept coming off the assembly line minus starters and alternators plus those that came off the line minus windscreens. Ford were getting very close to a situation where they would have to temporarily lay people off and that would cost them money. The union refused to bite, despite having a genuine ongoing grievance over management mishandling of a serious matter involving violence toward an employee.
Grayfly: Another good response. I too watched this sort of nonsense going on and it was really frustrating watching it and knowing there was nothing you could do about it.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 13:21
  #13698 (permalink)  
 
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John McDonnell says nationalising services would cost nothing

Labour’s plans to bring services into public ownership would cost “absolutely nothing”, John McDonnell has said.
The shadow chancellor outlined an agenda to put public services “irreversibly in the hands of workers” so they could “never again be taken away”.He told a Labour gathering in London that public ownership was not just a political decision but an “economic necessity”.“It would be cost-neutral because you would be bringing into public ownership an asset,” McDonnell told Sky News.
“In addition to that, you would not just have an asset, that asset would give you income. Instead of that income going to shareholders, it would come to the taxpayer.”
Some good news for a change..

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...d-cost-nothing
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 14:01
  #13699 (permalink)  
 
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“irreversibly in the hands of workers” so they could “never again be taken away”
Only by changing the constitution pretty drastically - at present a parliament cannot bind its successors.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 15:58
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He did have one interesting point though. He pointed out how the water industry was given over to private hands, totally debt free. And they have spent the intervening years incurring debt to pay dividends.
I don't know how you can say "NOT the people". He proposed putting things in the hands of the employees and the customers.
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