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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 11th Nov 2017, 09:42
  #12661 (permalink)  
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“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”.....
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 10:01
  #12662 (permalink)  
 
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The whole issue here , conveniently obfuscated by brain dead tories who cannot see thats topping tax abuses would benefit them is the matter of degree.

I am lucky to have a final salary pension plus some other bits and pieces plus a nice house. I bear no grudge to the guy round the corner who lives in an 8 bedroom house and has an aston martin - I sort of know him and he worked hard for it.

The problem is not people like him it is people like the couple in the TV documentary who had £28m sent it to Mauritius and gave it away to a company that they are not directors of but financial advisers to and the rules of the company are that the directors do what the FAs say. That is apparently legal but it certainly shouldnt but it isnt because too many rich and powerful people are to put it simply greedy bastards.

its got nothing to do with stifling innovation since there is plenty of room to get rich but its gone way too far and in Uk the Tories will ignore it at their peril. In the past they could get a way with doing nothing because younger voters could aspire to good jobs and a house but now far too many of them cannot. They will vote for Corbyn because he sounds and looks a down to earth guy who didnt go to Eton and hasnt got millions in a trust fund. And these people dont read the Daily Mail or Express they get their news on line from all kinds of sources and many of them are jealous of people like me let alone the tax crims
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 10:34
  #12663 (permalink)  
 
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Yes they will vote for Corbyn and he will deprive The Tories of power, although probably not take it for himself. As Blair observed on R4 this morning an opposition faced with such a government as this should be umpteen points ahead, not two.

The only thing that may alter this is the outcome of Brexit. If it turned out to be better than the alternative then I think The Tories may retain power. Labour are clearly guessing that it will be a disaster, if it is then that fifteen point advantage could well accrue to them. On that basis they will want it to fail and will do all they can to bring about that outcome. Although they may not need to do anything.
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 10:44
  #12664 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”.....
Well of course it's possible that the word "Envy" may at some point evolve to have the positive meaning that Sffp attaches to it. Myself I very much doubt that, but just in case it does maybe he should forthwith cease to use the term "Politics of Envy" just so not to give the wrong impression.
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 10:56
  #12665 (permalink)  
 
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They will vote for Corbyn because he sounds and looks a down to earth guy who didnt go to Eton and hasnt got millions in a trust fund. And these people dont read the Daily Mail or Express they get their news on line from all kinds of sources and many of them are jealous of people like me let alone the tax crims
I believe that you are absolutely right, except for your use of the words “tax crims” , tax avoidance is perfectly legal. The next government will be a Labour one. All that is required for labour to win power is for the Conservatives to make themselves look sufficiently incompetent. And they are certainly doing that at the moment.

But the good news is that nothing lasts forever. Over a period of time, probably a single term, the Labour government under the current crowd will destroy the economy. If you think that things are bad at the moment, just watch this space. We will then elect a Conservative government, which will do whatever is necessary to sort things out. As always, this will make them unpopular and we will go around the loop all over again. Unfortunately each generation must learn by its own mistakes, and the young Labour voters of today are about to learn a very hard lesson.
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 12:32
  #12666 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Well of course it's possible that the word "Envy" may at some point evolve to have the positive meaning that Sffp attaches to it. Myself I very much doubt that, but just in case it does maybe he should forthwith cease to use the term "Politics of Envy" just so not to give the wrong impression.
I use that term because I know you, as you have already confirmed in here will fully understand its inference
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 15:50
  #12667 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
I believe that you are absolutely right, except for your use of the words “tax crims” , tax avoidance is perfectly legal. The next government will be a Labour one. All that is required for labour to win power is for the Conservatives to make themselves look sufficiently incompetent. And they are certainly doing that at the moment.

But the good news is that nothing lasts forever. Over a period of time, probably a single term, the Labour government under the current crowd will destroy the economy. If you think that things are bad at the moment, just watch this space. We will then elect a Conservative government, which will do whatever is necessary to sort things out. As always, this will make them unpopular and we will go around the loop all over again. Unfortunately each generation must learn by its own mistakes, and the young Labour voters of today are about to learn a very hard lesson.
Apart from they are not, because the vast majority have nothing to lose.
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 16:52
  #12668 (permalink)  
 
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They, and you, may think that they have nothing to lose, but a Labour gavernment will quickly demonstrate what bad really is. And those eager young voters will soon learn that it is always a mistake to believe the utopian promises of Labour election candidates.
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 17:11
  #12669 (permalink)  
 
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and the young Labour voters of today are about to learn a very hard lesson.
As opposed to the sunlit uplands of the last seven years?

CG
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 17:34
  #12670 (permalink)  
 
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As ever the incoming Conservative government was faced with the urgent need to sort out the mess left by the outgoing Labour lot. The Conservatives never promised sunlit uplands, and it is totally unrealistic to expect them when faced with the mess they had taken on.

But it is always a good political trick to point out that your opponents have failed to produce something which they never actually promised to produce. If you do it often enough the more gullible voters will actually believe that it was a real promise.
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 17:53
  #12671 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
As ever the incoming Conservative government was faced with the urgent need to sort out the mess left by the outgoing Labour lot. The Conservatives never promised sunlit uplands, and it is totally unrealistic to expect them when faced with the mess they had taken on.

But it is always a good political trick to point out that your opponents have failed to produce something which they never actually promised to produce. If you do it often enough the more gullible voters will actually believe that it was a real promise.

Ah, sunlit uplands, the ever convenient "blame it all on Labour ! "( Tory and JB faithful ) and, erm, some maths.....although these may be too complex for some.

Taken from "Private Eye", a magazine which is far too factual, hence the reason it isn't read presumably, for those who rely on their sources which only support their own gushing perception of all things Tory.

Maths from the magazine. Ones own less than humble opinion text.

13 years of Labour Gov't during which the UK prospered

Tory sunlit uplands ......reduce deficit in 5 years

Current estimate....subject to change without notice ......15 years although they will be gone long before this.
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 18:01
  #12672 (permalink)  
 
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Thirteen years Labour Government during which the UK prospered.
Oh yes I remember, that prosperous period ended with that famous note from Liam Byrne the Labour Treasury Secretary saying, THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT. Now THAT is Labour prosperity for you.

Things were OK for the first few years because Labour stuck to the Conservative spending plans. We can all remember Gordon Brown going on about prudence. But then they threw prudence out of the window and reverted to typical Labour spend, spend, spend. And surprise, surprise, they ran out of money.

Who'd have thought it?

Last edited by keith williams; 11th Nov 2017 at 18:41.
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 18:42
  #12673 (permalink)  
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Once Corbyn, the Trojan horse and his merry bunch of Marxists get in there'll be five years of fantastic wealth in England as money cascades down from the money lenders and the wealthy, relatively so or grossly so, are bled dry.
There'll be a Labour landslide at the subsequent general election. By the end of that five year period, a decade in all, Britain will be an economic wasteland with less future for the young then than there is now.
If you own your own home in the UK and have unearned income as in a pension, it's time to plot to go. Remember Harold Wilson and tax at 98% on investment income? It's back soon!
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 19:20
  #12674 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Prophead;9954017]So the Labour party may purposely sabotage the UK economy and cause a massive economic disaster just to get into power and give their Union masters more powers.

May et al have willingly put their own neck into the Brexit noose and now Corbyn is prepared to kick away the chair. If what the proponents of Brexit are telling us is in fact true then no harm will come to us. My guess is that Labour are reading the writing currently on the wall about the outcome of negotiations and backing their hunches. You wouldn't have expected Churchill to drop Adolf a friendly note "I say old bean, that Barbarossa, it's a really bad idea."
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Old 11th Nov 2017, 20:25
  #12675 (permalink)  
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"Under Labour in the Seventies, the top rate of income tax rose to 83 per cent and reached 98 per cent when an investment income surcharge was applied.
But while Healey is often remembered as the villain of the piece, it was Roy Jenkins who raised taxes on income to an all-time record of 136 per cent.
These penal rates were imposed on high earners during the 1968 economic crisis as a special income tax levy for one year only on "unearned income" or savings and investment returns.
John Whiting, a partner in accountants Price Waterhouse Coopers, said: "It meant a person with investment income of more than £6,000 would pay tax of 20 shillings and nine pence - or £1.04 today - for every £1 of income, while someone with investment income above £15,000 would pay total taxes of 27 shillings and three pence or £1.36 on every £1."

Healey brought in trust busting legislation that required trustees, under penalty of the law, to sell assets to pay the government, draconian steps much beloved of the socialists and from which failures they never learn.
The subsequent brain drain had serious long term effects for the UK. It heralded the migration of so much British talent to the USA in particular, from whence it has never returned.
Schadenfreude is a strange old thing but here you go again.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 06:07
  #12676 (permalink)  
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Just to get your day off to a suitably dismal start, hopefully ( given the effusive praise and adulation for the Tory party that prevails on JB ) here's a nice BOGOF offering for you all to consider....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-johnson-iran

For those lacking the acumen to understand the BOGOF association, it's to do with an article in the Guardian by one J.Corbyn.

Strangely, there seems to have been no mention on here of Boris and his latest brain / mouth disconnect offering.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 08:17
  #12677 (permalink)  
 
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Oh, so you have nothing to say about the NO MONEY LEFT note or the 136% tax rates which previous Labour governments produced? You would prefer to divert attention to the views of a politician who until very recently, was derided by the vast majority of Labour politicians.

Typical lefty solution, if the facts are embarrassing just close your eyes, turn away, and pretend they did not happen.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 08:44
  #12678 (permalink)  

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Typical lefty solution
So today's lot are a solution?? You're 'aving a bleedin' giraffe mate!!

Since you can predict the future so well (did you really vote for this shower of liars and incompetents??) try voting Labour -- you will find you were as wrong about them as much as you were wrong about the present 'solution' you let in.

Sorry to remind you that the present disastrous government is your fault but

if the facts are embarrassing just close your eyes, turn away, and pretend they did not happen.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 09:30
  #12679 (permalink)  
 
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On the subject of BoJo I would say only this. If you had to choose between Bozza and The Donald as your defence counsel, who would you choose. Not a difficult decision IMO.
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Old 12th Nov 2017, 09:55
  #12680 (permalink)  
 
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Angels.

If you look at some of my previous posts you with find me saying the following,

1. All politicians are liars.

2. All that is required for Labour to gain power, is for the Conservatives to look suffiently incompetent, and they are currently doing exactly that.

The current poor state of the Conservative government is an inevitable consequence of being in power. All new governments start with a feeling of hope and unity, but as time goes by this turns into disarray. Just look at the Blair/Brown period. We went from IT CAN ONLY GET BETTER to infighting about who should be Prime Minister and THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT.

The fundamental difference between the two is that the Conservatives believe that the country must pay it's way, and to do this companies must make profits. The Labour view is that profits are evil and all money is government money, to be spent until it runs out.

I and voters like me did not let the current government in. We saved the country from more Labour foolishness. The Conservatives have done their best to get us out of the hole dug by Labour. If Labour had remained in power they would have just kept on digging. Unfortunately the Labour Party has now taken on some much bigger shovels, so the digging rate will be much faster when they get back into power.
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