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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 17th Aug 2017, 15:35
  #11461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
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@Andy S, you may be right, although I think that when she used the sentence:
Mainly white pubescent girls were being sexually groomed and exploited by gangs of mainly British Pakistani men.
she may have been referrring to her own constituency (that seems to be the context in her statement). In the case of Rotherham, she was absolutely right. The convicted men were all of British Pakistani origin, every single one of them.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 16:05
  #11462 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
KnC,

Which ethnicity are these gangs predominantly made up from?

These gangs have appeared in areas predominantly associated with which ethnic group?

Which religion do you think these gangs are predominantly following?

The MP just so happened to raise an issue that had already been raised in the media. Whether everything she said is correct, well that is what should be debated. What is the point of ignoring this issue?

Let a debate happen, find out the truth and solve the problem.

Finally, those who choose to bury their head in the sand are IMHO failing to protect all young girls, of all religions, colours, etc, from this evil. They are part of the problem.
First, my reply was in response to Wingswingers post. He's never been exactly cosmetic when it comes down to his political philosophies and not particularly astute when it comes to promoting them.

As for the series of questions you posed, this is JB where there has long been an established clique of posters only too willing to display their antagonism and vituperation in terms that could be classed as racist, sexist, homophobic and anti - immigration, to name the four usual topics that attract their undivided attention.

Again, had you actually bothered to read my posts, all is not as clear cut as the statistics suggest. Not that any such disparity has any relevance to those who cannot wait for any opportunity to engage with each other and to continue their unsavoury, to put it mildly, posts.

Again, they all come from a very similar demographic....strangely.

I posted a couple of links earlier, one from the Guardian another from the Sun, The latter clearly showed the offending comment, "the Muslim problem", one poster having emphatically saying, he couldn't find any reference, yet there it was. Thus far, there's been a deafening silence from the clique ...as usual.

Here's another link....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/...ual-abuse-race

Quite why Sarah Champion resigned and apologised is, as yet, not fully explained and possibly never will be, at least in the public domain.

Finally, you got, and usually will, an answer from me.

This is in stark contrast to those who post, but who, when asked questions, resolutely refuse to reply. That factor alone ( there are plenty of others I am delighted to say ) distinguishes me from those who post, but for whom debate, as you suggested, would be an intellectual anathema.

"I know we have some from the Left here, so can anyone from that side of the political divide hazard a guess as to why Sarah Champion had to resign?

Well it's a start, I suppose, as to the fact you are aware not everybody is a staunch Tory / UKIP supporter. Of course, it may further help if you actually chose to read views and opinions, rather than use the "Ignore" button, less, as I've said, the responses don't meet with your approval.


My own political views are very firmly in the centre, and my choice as to who to cast my vote for at every election has been a mix of what my local candidates are like, with the occasional tactical vote if I feel that a particular party would not do a good job of running the country. As a consequence, I have no party allegiance at all

I seem to recall a lot of ( self promotional ) angst around the time of the GE on similar lines....in fact, I kindly suggested you form your own party, having such a plethora of experiences which you share with us on a diverse range of topics.

In the end, you duly voted Tory ( hardly a shock ) and indeed spent an evening in the toxic company of some chaps ( Conservative and military) I believe was how you profiled the assembled throng, non of whom, in my less than humble opinion, would actually be capable of offering diverse opinions....on any topic, let alone politics.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 18th Aug 2017 at 06:07.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 16:52
  #11463 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
Also for the 'Liberal left', which political party are most reliant on the vote from this group?
What do you mean by "Liberal Left", given that "Liberal" and "Left" are two different, orthogonal, concepts?


At present, just to pick an example at random, the British Labour party is "Left" (it wasn't under Blair, but it is now) but, being as authoritarian as hell, it certainly isn't "Liberal" by the remotest stretch of anyone's imagination.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 17:00
  #11464 (permalink)  
 
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KnC,

I seem to recall a lot of ( self promotional ) angst around the time of the GE on similar lines....in fact, I kindly suggested you form your own party, having such a plethora of experiences which you share with us on a diverse range of topics.


Firstly you are not on my ignore list. No one is.
Secondly I post very rarely and stay away from most topics as my experiences maybe similar, or not relevant to the subject. I read them to learn something hopefully. You can see by the 'post count' who posts more frequently.

I personally would say that I am more centrist than yourself. Your views are well known on here and you continually use the Guardian to reinforce your view.

Maybe you could explain your last paragraph as I don't recognise it at all. Maybe provide any link where you could back up your accusation.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 17:16
  #11465 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
KnC,

I seem to recall a lot of ( self promotional ) angst around the time of the GE on similar lines....in fact, I kindly suggested you form your own party, having such a plethora of experiences which you share with us on a diverse range of topics.


Firstly you are not on my ignore list. No one is.
Secondly I post very rarely and stay away from most topics as my experiences maybe similar, or not relevant to the subject. I read them to learn something hopefully. You can see by the 'post count' who posts more frequently.

I personally would say that I am more centrist than yourself. Your views are well known on here and you continually use the Guardian to reinforce your view.

Maybe you could explain your last paragraph as I don't recognise it at all. Maybe provide any link where you could back up your accusation.
I wasn't referring to you re the "Ignore list", just the poster I quoted from after my response to your comments. I added his comments in italics to make the distinction. If you read all his posts, all will become clear.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 17:21
  #11466 (permalink)  
 
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Seems to be a gathering of informed opinion suggesting Ms Champion is silenced for daring to speak the truth.

Sarah Champion is being used as a 'scapegoat' after warning of cultural link in child sex cases, critics claim

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sarah-champion

Labour Leadership buying its head rather than face down this awful problem.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 17:47
  #11467 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Seems to be a gathering of informed opinion suggesting Ms Champion is silenced for daring to speak the truth.

Sarah Champion is being used as a 'scapegoat' after warning of cultural link in child sex cases, critics claim

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sarah-champion

Labour Leadership buying its head rather than face down this awful problem.

From The Telegraph (a.k.a. "The Torygraph") I would rather expect them to take this stance. That's not to say they are wrong, in my view she is being unfairly singled out for daring to speak the truth, from her position as an MP for a constituency that had a major issue with British men of Pakistani origin abusing hundreds of predominately white children (up to 1400 if you take the Jay Report figures as being reasonably accurate).

The piece in The Guardian is interesting, in as much as it comes as close as I've ever seen that paper come to implying that there may be flaws within the Labour Party. This reported statement by Jeremy Corbyn:

Asked if Champion had been right to suggest that Britain had a problem with British-Pakistani men exploiting white girls, Corbyn said it was wrong to “label a whole community”.
seems inaccurate, in that he knows, as all who have actually read Sarah Champion's words, that she did no such thing. Jeremy Corbyn seems to being deliberately disingenuous, as it is clear that when Sarah Champion made reference to crimes being carried out by "mainly British Pakistani men" she was very specifically referring to the case in her own constituency, where this was the case. These are her words from the article in question, in context:

I’m writing this as I don’t know what else to do to try and protect our children from grooming and sexual abuse by gangs.

I became the Member of Parliament for Rotherham in November 2012 and, within a month, I heard the abbreviation CSE (child sexual exploitation) for the first time.

Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council had been hauled in front of the Home Affairs Select Committee to justify their failure to protect young girls who were victims of this vile crime.

I sat stunned in the committee room, I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

It was shocking. Mainly white pubescent girls were being sexually groomed and exploited by gangs of mainly British Pakistani men.

I had to do something. I would not be another person who turned a blind eye to these crimes.

Working with the children’s charity Barnardo’s, I launched a cross-party parliamentary inquiry into child sexual exploitation. We found that the judges were not properly supporting the victims in court.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 17:51
  #11468 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
I wasn't referring to you re the "Ignore list", just the poster I quoted from after my response to your comments. I added his comments in italics to make the distinction. If you read all his posts, all will become clear.
I am sorry I mis read your post. Please clarify the other points I raised in my last post. If you have confused me with another person, no problem. I am just confused about your accusations.
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 21:46
  #11469 (permalink)  
 
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Last thing I read this morning on this topic shows the author of the offending piece in the Sun was Trevor Kavanagh. And Sarah Champion has denied that this phrase was part of what she actually siad. I would rather believe Ms Champion than a hundred Sun journalists. Sun, Hillsborough anyone?
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Old 17th Aug 2017, 22:12
  #11470 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Last thing I read this morning on this topic shows the author of the offending piece in the Sun was Trevor Kavanagh. And Sarah Champion has denied that this phrase was part of what she actually siad. I would rather believe Ms Champion than a hundred Sun journalists. Sun, Hillsborough anyone?
That sounds entirely plausible.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 06:13
  #11471 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
I am sorry I mis read your post. Please clarify the other points I raised in my last post. If you have confused me with another person, no problem. I am just confused about your accusations.
I haven't confused you with anybody else. As I said, my quotes in italics were not directed at yourself, but to the poster who made them.

Neither have I made accusations. My comments, in response to your questions, were factual statements.

GTW....you seem to have missed this link with regard to a certain Sun journalist. Others on here did as well.....how very strange .

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/423565...y-immigration/
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 10:39
  #11472 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Last thing I read this morning on this topic shows the author of the offending piece in the Sun was Trevor Kavanagh. And Sarah Champion has denied that this phrase was part of what she actually siad. I would rather believe Ms Champion than a hundred Sun journalists. Sun, Hillsborough anyone?
You can believe what you like, but it is all down on hard copy and emails.
After the piece was published, her PA emailed the Sun with this..

"She is absolutely thrilled with it – just gone to get some hard copies. However, she is mortified that you’ve used such an ancient picture of her – it is about five years old! I sent some newer ones last summer to the picture desk and am attaching them again here. Please can you send them on to the relevant person. Thanks, x"

Rather than being offended, she showed extreme vanity. Her attempt at backtracking was pathetic, and any kudos for honesty evaporated into thin air.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 12:17
  #11473 (permalink)  
 
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sitigeltfel: Sources? Please.
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 12:32
  #11474 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
sitigeltfel: Sources? Please.
Just one of many...

Labour MP Sarah Champion resigns as Jeremy Corbyn's equalities spokesperson over 'Pakistani rapists' article - Mirror Online
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 14:15
  #11475 (permalink)  
 
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sitigeltfel: Be honest. You original was not the Mirror, it was quoting almost verbatim form the right wing's bible "order-order".
And I still would trust the MP over The Scum. (alternative name for a tabloid rag in Liverpool)
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Old 18th Aug 2017, 15:21
  #11476 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
sitigeltfel: Be honest. You original was not the Mirror, it was quoting almost verbatim form the right wing's bible "order-order".
And I still would trust the MP over The Scum. (alternative name for a tabloid rag in Liverpool)
The Mirror piece was to add context and comment, if you cannot face facts that is your problem. You make the predictable error of shooting at the messenger when the message is not what you hoped for.

You trust an MP who tried to backtrack on what she said then was proven to have lied? The text is verbatim from an email sent to the Sun by her PA, if it was a fabrication she has had a week to denounce it. That she has not done so proves its authenticity.
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 04:25
  #11477 (permalink)  
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I don't suppose this is going to be applauded on here.....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sarah-champion

At least by those who prefer who prefer to continue with their exemplifying the salient points in the article.
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 05:43
  #11478 (permalink)  
 
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Someone sent me this. Any comments? I don't know the source.


Mayor of London ... MUSLIM

Mayor of Birmingham ... MUSLIM

Mayor of Leeds ... MUSLIM

Mayor of Blackburn ... MUSLIM

Mayor of Sheffield ... MUSLIM

Mayor of Oxford ... MUSLIM

Mayor of Luton ... MUSLIM

Mayor of Oldham ... MUSLIM

Mayor of Rochdale ... MUSLIM



Over 3,000 Muslim Mosques

Over 130 Muslim Sharia Courts

Over 50 Muslim Sharia Councils



Muslim Women ... 78% don't work and are on FREE benefits/housing

Muslim Men ... 63% don't work and are on FREE benefits/housing

Muslim Families ... 6-8 children planning to go on FREE benefits/housing and now all UK schools are ONLY serving HALAL MEAT!



All this achieved by just 4 million Muslims out of the 66 million population!
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 06:35
  #11479 (permalink)  
 
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I thought there were 3 million at the moment, not 4. It's achieved with money from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. If true it's staggering and extremely worrying. The bit about halal meat is suspicious. Are you telling me that in the local primary school where I live, in rural NW Hampshire, where there are no muslim families, is serving only halal meat to the children? It should be easy to find out.

Edited to add:

Oxford does indeed have a muslim mayor. He's one of probably 4 councillors out of 48 who are muslim. It's a ceremonial position for one year. More concerning is the make-up of the City Council: 35 Labour, 8 Lib Dem, 4 Green and one Independent.http://mycouncil.oxford.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1

Not a single Conservative. And they look a right shower. It tells you why so much in and around Oxford is a ****-up.

Last edited by Wingswinger; 19th Aug 2017 at 07:39.
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Old 19th Aug 2017, 07:20
  #11480 (permalink)  
 
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Have a look at Hampshire CC school meals page. Meat is "Red Tractor" certified and they are serving English pork.
Sourcing of Food in Hampshire school meals - Hampshire County CouncilMy School Lunch
Note no mention of Halal.
Wow! 3,000 Muslim Mosques! How many Methodist Mosques are there? Or Roman Catholic mosques?
As for the alleged newspaper, the Sun, all comments I can see specify Kavanagh was the author of the term "Muslim Problem". Kavanagh and Champion are not the same person.
And how does this poster determine the percentage of Muslim Families, Muslim Women etc receiving benefits? When I was out of work a few years ago, nobody questioned my religion, ethnic origin or sexual preferences. So can we see the sources please?
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