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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 16th Jun 2017, 16:49
  #10681 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
The Senior Fire Officer has stated the cause of the fire will not be published until the investigation is complete.

In the mean time anything you think you 'know' is nowt but supposition.

""I know nothing........!!!"" Just listened to what has been reported, doesn't sound too unlikely. I would put a bit of money on it, I reckon the "Senior Fire Officer" report, when ever it appears, will confirm a version very similar.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 16:54
  #10682 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
""I know nothing........"" Just listened to what has been reported, doesn't sound too unlikely. I would put a bit of money on it, I reckon the "Senior Fire Officer" report, when ever it appears, will confirm a version very similar.
Which in effect confirms my point
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 17:23
  #10683 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
This business of waiting for reports from all and sundry just enables "authority" to distance itself from the tragedy and try to accept as little responsibility as it can get away with. "Kick it out into the long grass, the public will forget about it and move on". Sorry, to me and I suspect many more that is just not acceptable. We need people to be accountable.
What a wonderful Daily Wail rant.


In real life, of course, it takes time to suss stuff out, and professional people in all walks of life don't like giving answers when they don't yet have any answers to give.


Oh, sorry, I forgot, we don't do "experts" any more these days, do we, now we're into post-facts politics. So why not just make up your own answers?
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 17:39
  #10684 (permalink)  
 
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Kick the Tories out!

A row has broken out between Labour’s new Kensington MP Emma Dent Coad and her Conservative predecessor over the Grenfell Tower fire.

as a councillor she was on Kensington and Chelsea’s housing scrutiny committee, which oversees “community safety issues”, until May 2014.

A 2014/15 report, in which she is named, says the committee scrutinised work on Grenfell Tower.

She was on the board of Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation when the tower’s refurbishment was discussed.
oops
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 17:49
  #10685 (permalink)  
 
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VP969 - We obviously watch different 'news' outlets ..."At least one fire expert interviewed yesterday said that in his view sprinklers would have had little or no effect on the outcome."
The news report I watched included an interview with a chap who had been 'in the business' for many years and he stated, quite categorically, that, to his knowledge, there had only been one fatality in tower blocks with correctly 'separated' accommodation and NONE in those with sprinkler systems.
Having read back through previous posts I note that you also appear to subscribe to the much touted idea that University tutors are universally hard left sympathisers and that this directs the political leanings of their students. I have (what I consider to be) the great advantage of not having attended any further learning institution but I was always under the impression that the sine qua non of University education was that it expanded your horizons mentally and allowed you to dissect and differentiate between viewpoints and come to rational conclusions. You, and others, seem to suggest that becoming an undergraduate is a route to unthinking mental stagnation.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 18:19
  #10686 (permalink)  
 
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I am rapidly approaching 60 and its fair to say that todays graduates are a totally different kettle of fish to those who went off to Uni in my days.

As an aside there is a fairly hefty % of those who graduate today who will never pay off their student loans and a good proportion who will never pay back a penny. When you consider that the trigger point for pay back is 21k that is a pretty damning indictment of modern day graduation standards.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 18:35
  #10687 (permalink)  
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I was always under the impression that the sine qua non of University education was that it expanded your horizons mentally and allowed you to dissect and differentiate between viewpoints and come to rational conclusions.
Snigger.....
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 18:41
  #10688 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
The Senior Fire Officer has stated the cause of the fire will not be published until the investigation is complete.

In the mean time anything you think you 'know' is nowt but supposition.
However the senior police officer conducting the criminal investigation has publicly stated that the fire started in a flat on the fourth floor, that the police have conducted an initial investigation of this flat and are not considering pursuing criminal charges at this time.

Who do we believe?
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 18:44
  #10689 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
VP969 - We obviously watch different 'news' outlets ..."At least one fire expert interviewed yesterday said that in his view sprinklers would have had little or no effect on the outcome."
The news report I watched included an interview with a chap who had been 'in the business' for many years and he stated, quite categorically, that, to his knowledge, there had only been one fatality in tower blocks with correctly 'separated' accommodation and NONE in those with sprinkler systems.
Having read back through previous posts I note that you also appear to subscribe to the much touted idea that University tutors are universally hard left sympathisers and that this directs the political leanings of their students. I have (what I consider to be) the great advantage of not having attended any further learning institution but I was always under the impression that the sine qua non of University education was that it expanded your horizons mentally and allowed you to dissect and differentiate between viewpoints and come to rational conclusions. You, and others, seem to suggest that becoming an undergraduate is a route to unthinking mental stagnation.
If you bother to read further, you will find that I clarified what I'd learned about the effect of sprinkler systems in a situation where there was little or no internal fire, but a great deal of smoke and fumes.

It's always better to read fully before making critical comment based on partial information, and ignoring the whole story.

I'll help you out here, as it seems you struggle a bit with comprehension: http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4112...ml#post9804039
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 18:46
  #10690 (permalink)  
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The location of the fire is not the cause of the fire, and not the cause of the greater fire. The police responsibility was to identify if the source of ignition was nefarious, if they decide it was not, at that point their job is done - and that of the fire department has just started.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 18:51
  #10691 (permalink)  
 
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Precisely ORAC, precisely.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 19:00
  #10692 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The location of the fire is not the cause of the fire, and not the cause of the greater fire. The police responsibility was to identify if the source of ignition was nefarious, if they decide it was not, at that point their job is done - and that of the fire department has just started.
And who mentioned the cause of the fire?

It wasn't me, all I've every referred to as known fact is what has been reported, the source of the fire. There is speculation as to the cause, but I've been meticulous about making it clear that this is speculation and has not been confirmed.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 19:05
  #10693 (permalink)  
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May I refer you to your post #10699, implying one or the other was wrong - whilst both are correct, but complimentary.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 19:27
  #10694 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
May I refer you to your post #10699, implying one or the other was wrong - whilst both are correct, but complimentary.
Indeed, but I was clear to only state the source, not the cause. The source seems very clear, from multiple reports, including the police, a flat on the fourth floor.

The cause has yet to be confirmed, there are reports it was an appliance, but there has been no confirmation of this, that I've heard.

I have no idea whether the fire officer and the police officer are in disagreement, but I think they were just stating things from their own perspective, and I'm not convinced they are expressing mutually exclusive views.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 19:38
  #10695 (permalink)  
 
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Old fashioned chip pans should be banned! Seems a fridge catching fire is the rumour. Seen from corridor so no fire door closers. It would be ironic if it was the 'u' values what done it by driving material selection.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 19:41
  #10696 (permalink)  
 
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Labour done another oops

The "buy-to-leave" phenomenon in housing has come into question after a report commissioned by the Mayor of London found that almost no homes in London owned by overseas buyers are being left empty.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 20:11
  #10697 (permalink)  
 
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London seems to be degenerating into mob rule aided and abetted by Comrade Corbyn and 'business as usual' Khan.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 20:13
  #10698 (permalink)  
 
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The far left are violent thugs who will stoop so low as to use this tragedy to further their political cause.

Corbyn's popularity will vanish by the next GE, whenever that is
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 21:20
  #10699 (permalink)  
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For those who remember and interested when I mentioned I was waiting for my degree result, I got a 2:1.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 21:24
  #10700 (permalink)  
 
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Labour done another oops
Where does this "information" come from?
How about the Metro in 2016 showing that, of the 19,845 homes that have sat empty for 6 months or more, the area with the highest number was Kensington & Chelsea with over, 1200.
uk.businessinsider.com shows similar data, updated in April 2017, showing Kensington now having 1,399 sitting empty.
A recent report showed that less than 25% of new build homes over 14 different developments were sold to UK buyers and at one estate development, not a single flat was bought by a UK resident!
And "the far left are violent thugs"? Well, that's a turn around, isn't it? Looking back through recent history, I thought that accolade belonged to the other extreme.
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