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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:10
  #10621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by Dutystude View Post
Seldom

Is there a chance you might be confusing approve with accept.

There must be lots of things you disapprove of (and voice your disapproval) but accept (and tell others to accept).

Farron disapproves of gay marriage but accepts it and tells others to accept.
Why not fess up to disapproving of it? Why hide that?

Folk here are trying to dress this up but it still boils down to a politician telling everyone else to do something they themselves would not do.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:15
  #10622 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Seldom, I don't thing its a deception, dishonourable or dishonest. If by voting in favour of LGBT stuff, he's only after approval- that's different. But if he's living his life one way, and upholding therights of all to do the same- not seeing a problem.

CG
Again why not fess up to it? Why hide it?

If I say 'I think same sex marriage is perfectly normal' that makes me sound progressive.

If I say 'I think same sex marriage is perfectly normal but you would never ever catch me pillow biting' that makes me sound like a homophobe.

If I say 'I think same sex marriage is perfectly normal' but actually think 'pillow biting is as bad as it gets' that makes me a hypocrite and a liar.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:16
  #10623 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Where is the hypocrisy?

I am TG and am perfectly happy with a politician who can express their personL views whilst accepting they are personal and cannot and should not be imposed on the the population as a whole - it's the very essence of liberalism.
So am I but it would appear this is not the case.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:16
  #10624 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EGLD View Post
And are you surprised that many socialists got into teaching? What did you expect them to do, go off and work on the Stock Exchange?
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:18
  #10625 (permalink)  
 
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Again I don't think he told anyone to approve of gay marriage.

He accepted gay marriage.

I hold no brief for Farron particularly his patronising and insulting "so your were happy to ruin your grandchildren's future" spat at a Brexit voting grandad while out on the hustings.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:23
  #10626 (permalink)  
 
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As others have stated the very essence of being a Liberal is an acceptance of others and the way they live their lives however as his religious beliefs are at odds with that how on earth is he an honest Liberal?

As a Liberal I think same sex marriage is perfectly normal but I am quitting my job because my religious beliefs are at odds with this?????

Same sex marriage is normal but I disagree with it?

Makes no sense people.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:30
  #10627 (permalink)  
 
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Seldom

Things are either acceptable or unacceptable as determined by society(ies) as they see fit. To use subjective phrases like 'perfectly normal' is nonsensical.

I, and no doubt you, can think of many sexual proclivities that are acceptable - not illegal - that many (perhaps including you) would consider far from normal as they understand the term.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:32
  #10628 (permalink)  

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go off and work on the Stock Exchange?
I did.

Well, at a stock jobbers actually, the Exchange is merely an umbrella organisation if you like.

As I've said before, the more I saw of the City and it's ways, the more left wing I got.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:42
  #10629 (permalink)  
 
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Seldom

How (if you are) can you be a Liberal if you cannot accept Farron's views. I thought acceptance of others views "was the essence..."

On this issue I think Farron is the epitome of a Liberal- enjoy your life, I won't interfere.

Not so you.

It seems you will not be happy until Farron has been sent for re-education until he agrees that gay marriage/sex is normal. Acceptance of others is not enough for today's right on Liberals.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:43
  #10630 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dutystude View Post
Seldom

Things are either acceptable or unacceptable as determined by society(ies) as they see fit. To use subjective phrases like 'perfectly normal' is nonsensical.

I, and no doubt you, can think of many sexual proclivities that are acceptable - not illegal - that many (perhaps including you) would consider far from normal as they understand the term.
Same sex marriage is acceptable but not normal, said no Lib Dem politician ever
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:46
  #10631 (permalink)  
 
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Angels

I guess you gave all your ill-gotten gains to the poor folks then
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:48
  #10632 (permalink)  
 
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No doubt Seldom and I have no desire to look into their souls.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 21:49
  #10633 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dutystude View Post
Seldom

How (if you are) can you be a Liberal if you cannot accept Farron's views. I thought acceptance of others views "was the essence..."

On this issue I think Farron is the epitome of a Liberal- enjoy your life, I won't interfere.

Not so you.

It seems you will not be happy until Farron has been sent for re-education until he agrees that gay marriage/sex is normal. Acceptance of others is not enough for today's right on Liberals.
Wrong, take your clothes off.

I admire Farron for now taking the moral step to stand down because his religious beliefs are at odds with his political beliefs.

My point of contention is that unless he is a brand new convert his religious beliefs have always been at odds with his political beliefs so the man has been a fraud up until now.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 07:04
  #10634 (permalink)  

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Dutystude -

I guess you gave all your ill-gotten gains to the poor folks then
No? Why should I? I paid a higher tax rate and NI. Do you actually know what socialism is or are you reading too many right wing comics?
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 07:35
  #10635 (permalink)  
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Do you actually know what socialism is
If the press is reporting accurately it is the compulsory confiscation of other people's homes. Note requisition rather than compulsory purchase - so no compensation. Totally illegal of course, but that's socialism for you.....

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/380951...ll-tower-fire/
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 08:36
  #10636 (permalink)  
 
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Socialism has a few definitions but in the current context it generally means 'we' want the Government and big business to give lots of free stuff out to the poor but 'we' want them to use someone else money to do that.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 09:29
  #10637 (permalink)  

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If the press is reporting accurately it is the compulsory confiscation of other people's homes.
Socialism covers a vast area of policy. I don't agree with the confiscation of property myself.

But let's look at this a little more closely. I'm interested in the fact that you call them 'homes'. Really? Buildings left empty? Not lived in for years? Homes? Have a think about it.

Leaving properties unoccupied means less homes for people which helps drive up property prices. That's called capitalism isn't it? This is a manipulation of market forces. Reduce supply and demand pushes the price up. Do you subscribe to capitalism like that? The sort that leaves poorer people -- and nowadays increasingly middle income people -- reliant on social housing and the private renting sector?

It works both ways. Capitalism covers a multitude of sins which I'm sure you won't agree with as well.

Or maybe you do, but do you see what I'm getting at?
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 09:37
  #10638 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
If the press is reporting accurately it is the compulsory confiscation of other people's homes. Note requisition rather than compulsory purchase - so no compensation. Totally illegal of course, but that's socialism for you.....

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/380951...ll-tower-fire/
I am not a socialist. However I cannot see that it is right for individuals to acquire property, by that I mean housing, with no intention of living in it or using that property for its prime purpose especially in a city which is already chronically short of housing. Fundamentally houses are for living in, not an investment tool. At the very least the property should be made available for rent. No need to deprive the owner of the property, just ensure it is used for its prime purpose, providing shelter and a home. Another option would be to make it financially very unattractive to leave property unoccupied.

As a comparison, some folk with money invest in motor cars. That is their choice but it does not affect other people's ability to buy a vehicle at a reasonable price. Showrooms full of cars but estate agents with loads of houses to sell at reasonable prices: I don't see any. Applies to plenty of other commodities such as antiques> can I afford a genuine Chippendale chair, no I can't. Can I go the IKEA and buy a chair to sit on? Of course I can !!! (Other suppliers available !!)

I don't have a problem with folk buying run down property and "doing it up". If they make profit, fine, in the end that property should be used for its prime purpose, someone to live in it. My problem is with leaving property totally unused.

Have just read the previous thread!!

Another aspect of this problem of having large numbers of unused/unoccupied properties near city centres is that it drives people out to the suburbs because that it is where they have some chance of finding something they can afford. At least two things follow from that, one up go the prices, further out and two, folk end up having to commute, more traffic on the roads and trains packed to busting.

Last edited by Planemike; 16th Jun 2017 at 10:01.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 09:37
  #10639 (permalink)  
 
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Andrea Leadsom live on tv: being willing to take residents' questions, great. But she is still in full polly mode! Not once would she just say, "I don't know." "Are we gonna have sprinklers?", "is the PM going to talk yo us?" She just bullshitted, when the exact right answer was, "At the moment, I just don't know."

When will they learn?

CG
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 09:51
  #10640 (permalink)  
 
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Conservative capitalism supporter though I am I have to say I can see why people react the way they do. Houses and flats left unoccupied in a high population density environment such as the city of London give one a little bit of a nasty taste in one's mouth, especially when they are owned by rich foreigners who have bought them as speculative investments with no intention of living in them for more than a few days/weeks a year.

The knock on effect is obvious and it extends up and down the socio-economic scale. I suppose I am comfortably off and I live in what might be described as a leafy shire. There is no way I could possibly buy a property in any of the pleasant parts of London.

The property market in London is broken and needs to be fixed. It should, first and foremost, cater for the needs of those who actually live there all year round and the aspirations of those who would like to move to the capital for work or personal reasons.
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