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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 16th Jun 2017, 11:12
  #10461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Planemike, the "empty homes" myth is just that, a myth. Yes there are empty properties, but just a small fraction - about 0.64% of London housing. Most owners want a return and the properties are mainly buy to let and are let to tenants. There are undoubtedly the odd millionaire or billionaire with a London home they keep empty for when they are in town, but minuscule against the total.
Depends what you call miniscule - government stats show 1399 properties empty for longer than 6 months in the borough of Kensington and Chelsea out of 86920, about 1.6%. In an emergency situation where replacement housing is needed very quickly, and most likely little or no council accommodation available, then it seems reasonable to suggest alternatives.

Perhaps some of the owners of the empty properties might have a social conscience and offer their assets for a period? No one is suggesting it as a permanent arrangement, but would alleviate the crisis while a longer term solution is put in place.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 11:57
  #10462 (permalink)  

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Corbyn is playing politics and inciting violence. Sky reporter in the scene this morning saying that the mood on the streets is growing increasingly ugly and could easily spark into riots
You mean the deaths of dozens of people are not the catalyst for the mood turning ugly?

Without apportioning blame right now, it does seem the cladding was to blame. Essentially the installation of the cladding on that block went to the company that bid the lowest. The company's directors pay themselves six figure sums. One lives in a mansion outside Crowborough, a million miles from north Ken.

People are just beginning to realise that something seemingly arcane such as the privatisation of council in-house services have actually led to lives being put at risk. They are getting angry.

Don't blame Corbyn for pointing out what privatisation and austerity can lead to.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 12:14
  #10463 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
It has absolutely nothing to do with Tory, Labour, Privatisation or austerity.
We shall see.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 12:15
  #10464 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
I am very uncomfortable with the way this tragedy is being used for political means. It has absolutely nothing to do with Tory, Labour, Privatisation or austerity.

The way Labour are trying to use it to knock the Tories and TM is disgusting.
The way many on these forums and all over social media is equally as disgusting. No one has a scooby as to why this tragedy has ACTUALLY happened but already the usual suspects are lining up their usual suspects, it's how the Left operates at the moment.

I listened to 5 live this morning and some shrill female newsie type was berating a former housing minister as to why the cladding being used on Grenfell House was allowed to be used when it is banned in the US. Feckin Kinder Eggs are banned in the US so should we now be following suit and taking them off the shelve, stupid sensationalist headline seeking mare
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:15
  #10465 (permalink)  
 
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I fear you greatly under estimate Jeremy Corbyn
On the contrary.

It would easy to suppose that Corbyn was being naive as to the possible consequences of his actions, but it would be wrong.

Corbyn well knows that to "requisition" property would need primary legislation which would be impossible to get through the House or the Lords, and even if it somehow miraculously did that, would then be tied up and thrown out by either the Supreme Court or the EU Court. In the meantime he has stoked up an unrealistic expectation which will only be seen as being blocked by the "rich" and invites a long hot summer of occupation, arson and riot.

Tie that in with MCDonnell's call for mass strikes and marches during the summer and their, again unrealistic and parliamentary impossible request to present a Labour "Queen's Speech" and you have a deliberate attempt to incite civil disobedience and disrupt the operation of routine life and parliamentary government.

Heath had to face a "Winter of Discontent", it would seem Corbyn is set on providing May with a "Summer of Discontent" - no matter what the cost.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:21
  #10466 (permalink)  
 
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No one has a scooby as to why this tragedy has ACTUALLY happened but already the usual suspects are lining up their usual suspects, it's how the Left operates at the moment.
There are some indisputable facts which are very plain for anyone to see, they will be confirmed (not revealed) when an enquiry does report. You do not need to be Left or Right to see and grasp those facts. As you say not sure what Kinder Eggs has to do with it, you brought them up.

You talk of this as though it is a one off event, first of its kind. It is not there have been other fires in high rise buildings other here and abroad. Sorry I do not have the name of the property to hand but there was another fire in London in which six folk lost their lives. A coroner's report (hardly likely to be an agent of the Left drew attention to the dangers inherent in this cladding. Something could have been done.

Do you not see why many people are very angry and are not prepared to go on putting up with authority protecting itself and saying "don't worry your pretty little heads, we have everything under control"? Not intended as a personal attack but I do feel you have some of that mentality. I stress, no personal offence intended.

I draw attention again to Hillsborough. Different circumstances but again authority did everything it could to protect itself including blaming Liverpool fans. It took years to have justice and hear the truth. Really do not want Grenfell Tower added to that list.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:28
  #10467 (permalink)  
 
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An indisputable fact is that no one even knows how or where the fire started yet, the Fire Brigade are not releasing that info.

I don't talk of it in any way shape or form apart from it being a tragedy that no one has single idea as to the cause of just yet.

I will sit quietly and patiently and await the outcome of the police and fire investigation then see who and where any blame lies with.

Those who want to wallow in the cess pool of speculation, supposition and random blame apportioning can feel free to do so.

If the kinder egg reference went over your head I suspect most of the above will as well.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:29
  #10468 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
On the contrary.

It would easy to suppose that Corbyn was being naive as to the possible consequences of his actions, but it would be wrong.

Corbyn well knows that to "requisition" property would need primary legislation which would be impossible to get through the House or the Lords, and even if it somehow miraculously did that, would then be tied up and thrown out by either the Supreme Court or the EU Court. In the meantime he has stoked up an unrealistic expectation which will only be seen as being blocked by the "rich" and invites a long hot summer of occupation, arson and riot.

Tie that in with MCDonnell's call for mass strikes and marches during the summer and their, again unrealistic and parliamentary impossible request to present a Labour "Queen's Speech" and you have a deliberate attempt to incite civil disobedience and disrupt the operation of routine life and parliamentary government.

Heath had to face a "Winter of Discontent", it would seem Corbyn is set on providing May with a "Summer of Discontent" - no matter what the cost.

It would not be easy for various reasons to requisition property but there is not harm in bring the matter forward for debate and applying moral pressure to those landlords who sit on that property. To my knowledge not one has come along and said "here, I can help out, I can house a couple of families". By contrast many other individual companies have donated goods and services to the survivors. Community spirit appears to have worked but not at landlord level.

Last edited by Planemike; 16th Jun 2017 at 13:40.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:30
  #10469 (permalink)  
 
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Planemike.

Lakanal House fire - Coroner recommendations and government reply.

https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/elections...oroner-inquest

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ecommendations
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:35
  #10470 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
An indisputable fact is that no one even knows how or where the fire started yet, the Fire Brigade are not releasing that info.

I don't talk of it in any way shape or form apart from it being a tragedy that no one has single idea as to the cause of just yet.

I will sit quietly and patiently and await the outcome of the police and fire investigation then see who and where any blame lies with.

Those who want to wallow in the cess pool of speculation, supposition and random blame apportioning can feel free to do so.

If the kinder egg reference went over your head I suspect most of the above will as well.
It has been reported the fire started in a flat on the fourth floor. A survivors spoke to the resident of that flat.

"that no one has single idea as to the cause of just yet." Just not true.

This business of waiting for reports from all and sundry just enables "authority" to distance itself from the tragedy and try to accept as little responsibility as it can get away with. "Kick it out into the long grass, the public will forget about it and move on". Sorry, to me and I suspect many more that is just not acceptable. We need people to be accountable.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:36
  #10471 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC ...........Thank you !!
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:40
  #10472 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Hillsborough (and King's Cross and Bradford City). Whilst all the lies and dissembling and wheedling out lasted for many years, these events DID lead to wide-ranging and permanent changes. The idea of a public enquiry fills me with dread- it will take years and years, enriching lawyers, and allowing the rich and influential to get their ducks in a row. Rich people rarely do time.

I'd like to see some real decisive action. If it were me: the fire safety of any building in the UK above the number of floors decided by the LFB Commissioner would now be handed to the local fire service. Private and LA. Every one of those building to be inspected by the fire service within the week, with any orders rectified or mitigated to the fire service's satisfaction by 7 days after that. Or they close it. No appeals. Central government foots the bill for LA stock, and for rehousing for repairs.

The only vested interest here will be the firemen, who will be running in to the future burning buildings. They will get it right, with support from experts of their choosing, also funded by central gov.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:41
  #10473 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
I am very uncomfortable with the way this tragedy is being used for political means. It has absolutely nothing to do with Tory, Labour, Privatisation or austerity.

The way Labour are trying to use it to knock the Tories and TM is disgusting.
When Mayor Khan visited the area yesterday Sky said it tied up thirty police officers for nearly two hours to protect him. Corbyn ensured that the centres he visited were stuffed with sympathisers and activists, lest anyone go "off message". Did Corbyn bring along his new Kensington MP, Emma Coad, to explain why she did nothing about the problems when she was a director of KCTO?

Khan obviously didn't reckon that a seven year old kid would notice the London emperors new clothes and heckled him. Footage of Mays visit shows very little security presence, save for what a prime minister would normally command.

If people are impressed by politicians grandstanding, they get what they deserve.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:50
  #10474 (permalink)  
 
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Planemike.

Reading the letter from the Coroner to the department, top of page 3 in the link below, it was the Coroner's recommendation that the department write to the providers of high rise social accommodation to encourage them to fit sprinklers. The letter sent by the department did excactly that and included the letter below as an enclosure. It would seem that the department did exactly what the Coroner asked.


https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/def...8March2013.pdf
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:54
  #10475 (permalink)  
 
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Did Corbyn bring along his new Kensington MP, Emma Coad, to explain why she did nothing about the problems when she was a director of KCTO?
Hmmm... that one could develop along interesting lines if true.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 13:59
  #10476 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
Hmmm... that one could develop along interesting lines if true.

From Wiki..

Dent Coad was born in Chelsea as the youngest of six in an Anglo-Spanish family, and has lived in North Kensington since 1986.[2] She was elected to Kensington and Chelsea London Borough Council in 2006, representing Golborne ward.[3] She is a member of the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority[4] and was a council-appointed board member of Kensington and Chelsea TMO from 2008[5] to 31 October 2012.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Dent_Coad
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:05
  #10477 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Planemike.

Reading the letter from the Coroner to the department, top of page 3 in the link below, it was the Coroner's recommendation that the department write to the providers of high rise social accommodation to encourage them to fit sprinklers. The letter sent by the department did excactly that and included the letter below as an enclosure. It would seem that the department did exactly what the Coroner asked.

https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/def...8March2013.pdf
What you say is quite true but take a look, it also deals with the risk of spread of an external fire. Seems like a missed opportunity. I know, easy to say in hindsight but there were highly paid people around who read this stuff or should have done and done something about it. No one can say this came out of nowhere. Now if it were a major earthquake in Kensington, they might be on safe ground!! Excuse the pun !!!

Would also add the residents of Grenfell Tower were uneasy about safety and did raise legitimate concerns. These appear to have been brushed aside by "authority". Response was: ""Go away!! We know best, don't worry your pretty little heads".

Last edited by Planemike; 16th Jun 2017 at 14:24.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:19
  #10478 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Planemike.

Reading the letter from the Coroner to the department, top of page 3 in the link below, it was the Coroner's recommendation that the department write to the providers of high rise social accommodation to encourage them to fit sprinklers. The letter sent by the department did excactly that and included the letter below as an enclosure. It would seem that the department did exactly what the Coroner asked.


https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/def...8March2013.pdf
From many of the witness accounts from those escaping from Grenfell Tower, fire doesn't seem to have been a major problem inside the building, but smoke and fumes were. Would sprinklers have made any difference? At least one fire expert interviewed yesterday said that in his view sprinklers would have had little or no effect on the outcome. That's not to say that sprinklers aren't a damned good thing to fit, but what would have been far greater benefit would have been better fire escape routes, better fire advice to residents and a better smoke extraction system from the central well.

In terms of sprinklers, the fire experts seem to be converging on a view that external wall cascade sprinklers could have possibly suppressed this fire fairly quickly.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:24
  #10479 (permalink)  
 
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Question to those who know this stuff: would sprinklers have a smoke suppressing effect at all?

CG
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 14:27
  #10480 (permalink)  
 
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More disgusting behaviour from Corbynistas...

Prominent Corbynistas have been peddling false claims this afternoon that the government has issued a D-Notice preventing the reporting of the death toll from Grenfell. The lie was reported by the prominent Corbynista site Skwawkbox, which claimed “multiple sources told the Skwawkbox that the government has placed a ‘D-notice’ on the real number of deaths in the blaze”. The ‘story’ was also promoted by two other viral Corbynista sites Evolve Politics and Novara Media.
A spokesman for the Defence and Security Media Advisory Committee, the body which issues D-Notices, told Guido this afternoon:
“The Secretary of the Defence and Security Media Advisory Committee has not issued any D-Notice in relation to Grenfell.”
These Corbynistas, who work closely with Jeremy Corbyn’s office, are lying to their readers. They are deliberately peddling knowingly false conspiracies to suggest some government plot about Grenfell, and getting thousands of hits off the back of it.
https://order-order.com/2017/06/16/c...ice-fake-news/

Waiting for Corbyn to denounce the vermin promoting that lie...


...and waiting!
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