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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 10th Jun 2017, 11:46
  #10281 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
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Blackmail, Shirley?
Real Politik; and don't call me Shirley! If those two got her to act like she did, it's common sense, not blackmail.

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Old 10th Jun 2017, 11:57
  #10282 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
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If a leader who refuses to listen to her colleagues and only listens to her personal advisers delivers the biggest electoral disaster of modern times, it's surely not unreasonable for those colleagues to now suggest that the advisers who told her to have an election, wrote the manifesto and directed her campaign should now be shipped to the soylent green plant ASAP?

The tory party tried it Theresa's way and got butt-hurt, almost with extreme prejudice. So now they want her to either change her approach or step aside.

I'd say that was probably a wise thing to ask, but then I'm just incredibly intelligent, highly educated and a walking babe-magnet so what would I know...

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Old 10th Jun 2017, 12:01
  #10283 (permalink)  
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Location: norway
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Orac said...........

"Just having finished a full time politics degree at Sussex University (and awaiting my result on the 20th)"

Best of luck to you, Orac, on the 20th.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 12:14
  #10284 (permalink)  
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Trouble at 'Mill?

Gerry Adams: Referendum on Irish unity now inevitable after General Election results.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 12:18
  #10285 (permalink)  
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Nick Timothy has resigned as PM adviser.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 12:19
  #10286 (permalink)  
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Based on the reports that are coming out of a pretty toxic relationship between experienced politicians close to the PM, and Fiona Hill in particular, I don't find this surprising.

What I do find surprising is that Theresa May seemed to take more heed of their advice than that of her senior colleagues, many of whom seem to have been uncomfortable with these two advisers. It shows a lack of judgement on her part, I think, to place so much trust in people that appear to have not been working well with her senior team.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 12:21
  #10287 (permalink)  
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Nick Timothy: Why I have resigned as the Prime Minister's adviser.

And the female has resigned, too.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 12:35
  #10288 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
" I take it you actually watched the programme, because if you did you would have noticed the whole audience cheering and applauding at the news of Nuttal resigning and Labour winning Kensington.

I take it you have no sense of humour then......seemed a perfectly justified and natural reaction to the news of both events.
well it would to a lefty wouldn't it, sheesh

In case anyone hasn't noticed, not only do the left believe they are the sole occupants of the moral high ground, but they also have complete control of mainstream comedy

I stand by my original statement about BBC bias on HIGNFY and would add - TV comedy is not just fairly left wing, it is far left socialism propaganda

C4 might just about get away with it on The Last Leg, though I'm fairly sure there are regulations for all channels about balance

But for the BBC to put on a mainstream election coverage satirical programme with everyone - ok everyone except Hislop - on the panel and in the audience as rabid left wing is nothing short of a disgrace

Andrew Lawrence was ostracized from TV comedy for coming out as a Tory, and is anyone surprised that such a thing carries a career death sentence these days?

The left have managed to smear people with conservative opinions so much since Blair seized power in '97 that millions of people daren't voice their opinions in public
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 13:01
  #10289 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
I think that's a more pressing question for the Tories. On the one hand, another election could see them actually lose; but clinging on with the Irish nutters in tow for 5 years is less likely than Corby winning. Go Blues eh?

Whilst JC continues to offer all things to all men then Labour will/must remain an attractive proposition among the young in particular. But the devil is in the detail as always, to the young in higher education in particular he appears to be offering to 'give' them free money in return for their vote, in reality of course he is 'selling' them free money because it all has to be paid for in the end. Most likely by them as they progress hopefully in successful careers after higher education.

For me, Brexit is the all consuming, number one priority at the moment and for the next two years. Apart from maybe the safety of the nation we can deal with everything else after those two years. Todays youngsters will live with the consequences of brexit and we must get it right. We are leaving the EU and must get the best possible deal - whatever that might be, and this is not the thread to discuss that.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 13:42
  #10290 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
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There could be a little 'tension' on the way between the DUP and Scotland's highly regarded Ruth Davidson.
Davidson, who is gay, spoke out after Theresa May outlined a plan to seek a deal with the socially hardline party, which has 10 seats in the Commons, to prop up her minority administration.

In an apparent criticism of the plan, Davidson on Friday tweeted a link to a speech she made in favour of marriage equality, with the message: “As a Protestant unionist about to marry an Irish Catholic, here’s the Amnesty Pride lecture I gave in Belfast.”
The Independent carries this handy guide to the DUP.Why is the DUP so controversial? The party's stances on abortion, gay marriage and climate change explained | The Independent
Being against gays of all stripes.
an Paisley Jr, son of the party’s founder Ian Paisley, has previously called homosexuality “immoral, offensive and obnoxious” and said he was “repulsed” by gays and lesbians.
Climate change, they reckon, if it occurs at all, is caused by cow's bottoms. And last but by no means least.

DUP assembly member for West Tyrone, Thomas Buchanan, last year endorsed an event promoting creationism to be “taught in every school”.

The event included presenting “the biblical case for the sound teaching of children” that will “offer helpful practical advice on how to counter evolutionary teaching”.

DUP politician Edwin Poots has expressed his views that the planet is a “young earth” created just 4,000 years ago.
I expect to see some very positive posts about the DUP any time now and I'm sure they'll get on fine with the POTUS. I guess there's a natural affinity between the orange skinned one and the Orange Lodge.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 13:50
  #10291 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Had lunch with an English friend yesterday who is in her '70s and has lived mostly in the US (for work reasons) since 1975. So she has a lot of perspective (Labour voter when she was able to vote.)

The longer we talked, the longer we were almost laughing sadly at what happened that created such chaos.

Her take was something like: How on earth did Mrs. May and her advisors not take under consideration the fact that they decided to run against a man who had absolutely nothing to lose by pulling out every failed hard left policy of giveaways, just for a start, and nationalization (unions' and workers' wildest dreams) of the last 75 years, repackaging it, and just going for it?

I know 20/20 is a hindsight thing. But the more she analyzed, the more it made sense to me. She said, look, he or his advisors targeted the major groups: Unions who would have a rebirth in power and growth under nationalization, workers who remember how strong unions used to mean jobs for life with raises, youth who were bees to honey over free tuition, new arrivals were enticed with family reunification visas and new visa programmes for unlimited entry for ex-EU workers. He hit every major voting demographic with sweeties.

She and I remember the power cuts of the '70s and the riots. But she said young people don't have that reference of how things can go wrong with his kinds of programmes.

He went for every group to draw them back to the Labour fold--or to get them to vote for the first time,, perhaps. These "re-energized" youth were a shoe-in having matured under austerity, with difficult job prospects, home ownership a far dream and they were introduced on steroids to the old "halcyon" world paradigm and they went for it in droves.

The brilliant thing that put it over the top in terms of the massive votes they received, was perhaps (as my friend said) that campaigning excitedly with this shopping list of every major socialist/communistic programme ever known was a guy who was authentic with it all.

We thought Corbyn validated all of it because his history shows he's believed deeply in all of these things utterly for his entire career. So his authenticity resonated with young voters (and probably jaded older ones) after years of fakey type politico pontificators. The cynic in me thinks he knew he probably wouldn't deliver any of it in the 21st century, but he believed it so why not just put it out there as a manifesto and see what happens.

In other words, the Tories should have seen he couldn't have any other kind of manifesto. It was in his DNA.

My friend and I kept saying to each other: How could the Tories NOT have anticipated this from Corbyn's camp? Why did they not see the danger of running against an avowed socialist extraordinaire with nothing to lose by rolling out the big gun giveaways and targeting all the UK voter factions with all the feel good things in his world who have felt most disenfranchised?

And as a grace note to put the boot in, he rolled out the "we'll go after those rich bas=tids (code for Tories no doubt) who are rich, rich, rich and they'll pay for all of this by paying for your great stuff!" So, he played the class card, as well.

The only thing we couldn't fathom after this was how he lost.

My expertise on No. 10 is riding past the Downing Street entrance upstairs on a red bus.

But why oh why did not all the brain power in Tory Westminster with decades of experience with Corbyn and politics not see what he might do if given the "gift" of fighting a general election? How did this apparently not occur to them before calling the snap election?

The country seemed ripe for a bountiful father to emerge to offer the world to voters, especially since he'd probably not be tasked with actually delivering it.

They ran against Santa Claus. They didn't see this coming?

Now, he's the bountiful father of the UK, and will do further things with his manifesto, no doubt, as bye-elections begin to roll in. The power base he's got now will have further influence on numbers.

It's hard to imagine just these two advisors who just left were the sole two who missed the big picture of running against Corbyn?

Is anybody at home in No. 10 with any prescient abilities? My friend said she was gobsmacked by their apparent sleep walking into Corbyn's propeller blade.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 13:55
  #10292 (permalink)  
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What to do next seems the order of the day:

1. Let the Conservatives and DUP try and do the job required for the next 5 years, with what some are saying is an opposition party, which apparently has been missing to date.

2. Hold another election in October after May has been replaced.

3. Null and void the election as conservatives did not have a majority and let Corbyn have a go with whoever he lines up to give them a working majority.

4. Knock it on the head and let the EU completely control the UK, then we won't have to go through all this c***p again, I know some would prefer this option going by comments across the media/forums.

5. Any other options that others can add.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 14:02
  #10293 (permalink)  
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It only got worse when the raging Loony Party member appeared later on!
Oi! Hang on a mo. I happen to be a card-carrying (really) member of the Monster Raving Looney Party. Paid up member for the past 20 years or so. Can't go wrong with the Loonies.

Before UK elections of the past few became so fraught, I always tuned in when stateside only to watch election results to see how many pink bunny suited fellow Looney members would appear on stage for the results.

I've used that get out of jail (MRLP) card in the US for years when asked to which political party I belong. Always wave my Looney membership card, and that gets me out of the need to declare, which in the past 10 years or so went from a minor fact of one's life to some kind of potential tribal attack declaration.

p.s. As for cozying up to the DUP to get the working majority, guess they looked across the landscape and the Tories knew the only chance was DUP. But if they think in this day and age you can team up with a party that openly does not support gay rights, you are delusional in the extreme. In today's world this will become THE single-issue problem for the Tory-DUP team up and will be beaten to death every day in the press and by the liberal group of Tories as the lead "problem" until the team-up fails. In today's world no political issue whatsoever can take a front seat against gay rights. What are they thinking?
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 14:06
  #10294 (permalink)  
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This is so like the unfortunate "winners" in the US. Every diatribe starts with Obama or Clinton, while carefully avoiding the fact that it is Trump in the hot seat who needs to deliver or move aside. Corbyn is a fat juicy target for the hysteria of the right wing fascists who run the daily comics, but what do they have to say about St Theresa throwing away a perfectly useful political mandate simply to soothe her ego?

Why all the negativity of the upcoming arrangement with the Ulster Unionists? You'll soon have July 12th as a new Bank Holiday, celebrating a win by a Dutchman over 300 years ago. You can restart religious intolerance against same sex marriage, abortion and homosexuality. Maybe you could collaborate and hold anti-Muslim marches through predominately Muslim areas during Ramadan?

The future's bright - the future's Orange.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 14:16
  #10295 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by baggersup View Post
What are they thinking?
They had no choice.

They needed, in practice, another 4 seats for a majority (allowing for the Sinn Féin members who won't take up their seats), and there is no other party that would consider an alliance with the Conservatives. The LibDems ruled it out before the election, having had their fingers well and truly burned during their last coalition, the SNP are rabidly anti-Conservative and the other parties are all more or less aligned with Labour.

I suppose, in the longer term, there is the remote possibility that the anti-Corbyn members of the PLP might just arrange some sort of a shift, perhaps breaking the Cooperative party away from Labour. I think it's a heck of a long shot, though.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 14:22
  #10296 (permalink)  
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Hey, come on guys ! How come no-one has mentioned the Fish Finger ? Democracy ?
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 14:29
  #10297 (permalink)  
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Yet another article regarding the significance of the youth vote.


Reliable breakdowns by age will not be available for several days, but there is widespread agreement that youth turnout is up. Indeed, it’s the only way to make sense of results in student-heavy constituencies such as Bristol West, where the Labour incumbent Thangam Debbonaire ended the night with a majority of 37,336. Yes, you read that right. Her lead over the second-placed Conservative is only 400 less than the total number of people who voted for Theresa May in Maidenhead.
It's easy to dismiss the youth vote, as many are doing, by saying that as people get older they naturally move to the right politically. I agree, most do. When you have less of a future in front of you it's natural to become risk averse and to desire a maintenance of the status quo, or even, god bless 'em a return to the good old days.

But this will not be a linear change. There's a demographic bulge of old people - the baby boomers, born between 1945 and 1960. This crowd are the brexiters and the natural party of support for Conservativism, as they drop off the perch they will NOT be replaced in the same numbers. The influence of the youth vote will get stronger and stronger as the baby boomers fade out.

A friend of mine has predicted that the next minority group to be singled out for demonisation will be neither an ethic or religious group. It will be the old folks. The ones who got free university education, the ones who bought property while it was still affordable and the ones who are now being supported via the state and whose pensions and health care are costing the working taxpayers plenty.

This group will become the new scapegoats, the new Irish, the new Pakis, the new Poles. And when that happens, and someone reminds the working taxpayers that those old folks were also the ones who in the main voted for Brexit, I'd say wave bye-bye to your tripple locked pensions folks.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 14:30
  #10298 (permalink)  

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And nobody has mentioned Independent candidate Bobby Smith, who got 3 votes (allegedly his own vote, his wife and his mother; his father did not vote; at least thats what I read somewhere).
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 14:33
  #10299 (permalink)  
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Alas, yes, the T's did have no choice looking across the team-up landscape. My "what were they thinking" was a bit rhetorical, given the reality of the mess the Tories are in.

Maybe they just thought let's do it because we have to, and manage the fall out as best we can later. Not much else they could do.

I've spent a lot of time in NI and have seen what it's like on the streets etc. Compared to when I was there a few times in the '70s and '80s with the armed camp situation, the change is palpable, even if (I've been told) there are more peace walls now than when the Good Friday Agreement was signed. Sigh.

Mr. Adams calling for a (another) reunification vote is interesting, as well, given the sudden rise of the DUP's profile in the international arena. Driving through East and West Belfast is a stark and visible reminder of how little things have changed in some people's minds and hearts, despite the GF agreement, so that's going to be "interesting!"

I know it comes under pigs flying category but this did make me wonder if Gerry A would give special dispensation just this once for the SF members to take their places as voting members, in spite of the need to take the pledge.

Hey, do what we did as kids, just hold one hand behind your back with your fingers crossed when saying the pledge, then it doesn't count. ha.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 14:35
  #10300 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
I think that's a more pressing question for the Tories. On the one hand, another election could see them actually lose; but clinging on with the Irish nutters in tow for 5 years is less likely than Corby winning. Go Blues eh?

DUP are British Nutters who worship the Queen and everything British.
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