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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 11th Jun 2017, 15:06
  #10181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Trossie,

Is your Labour Party akin to our Democrat Party in its behavior?

An example....they hated Jim Comey, the FBI Director, before they loved him.

Your Conservative Party sounds like our Republican Party.....which does not like Conservatives.

Example....the RNC forming a 55 Million Dollar fund in concert with the Chamber of Commerce (big business) to defeat Tea Party and conservative candidates during Primary Elections.

Broadly, yes, Labour is fairly close in many respects to your Democratic party, and the Conservative party is fairly close to the Republican party. The most significant differences arise from the very different histories of our two nations over the past three hundred years.

In general, the Conservative and Unionist Party (to give them their full name) are right wing, supportive of business and enterprise, opposed to a large public sector and strongly in favour of maintaining the Union.

Last edited by VP959; 11th Jun 2017 at 18:52. Reason: typo
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 15:43
  #10182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Originally Posted by EGLD View Post
Labour weren't in power in 2010?
Of course they were. And they had just lost their parliamentary majority in an election. And they were looking for ways to hang onto power.

Sound familiar?

Originally Posted by Cazalet33 View Post
She failed comprehensively and she should do what more honourable losers have done in her position: resign.
One thing which seems to have slipped under a lot of peoples radar is that the Conservatives actually increased both their total vote and their share of the vote in last weeks election.

I agree that Theresa May should go, because her authority is in tatters and her shortcomings have been exposed. But it's a little unfair to say she failed comprehensively. The Conservatives are still the largest party by some distance.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 15:51
  #10183 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
But it's a little unfair to say she failed comprehensively.
I would say that if you have a working majority, then call a completely unnecessary election, then as a result of that lose your working majority, then "failed comprehensively" is not an unreasonable description.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 15:58
  #10184 (permalink)  
 
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Oh, there's no doubt she failed, on several levels. But she's still PM and still has the most seats. So I would argue that "comprehensive" failure is slightly unfair.

But it's a pointless argument.....
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 16:31
  #10185 (permalink)  
 
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I think that the scale of her failure is really to do with the fact that it was a totally unnecessary election to call. She had a perfectly workable majority and, given the results of recent by elections the prospect that she might even have increased it over the coming months.

The need for a more substantial majority was solely as a result of Brexit, something brought about by her predecessor. What she seems to have achieved more than anything has been to give credence to Corbyn as an opposition leader. I would have said that was fairly disastrous all things considered.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 16:53
  #10186 (permalink)  
 
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If you believe she will last five years I would be placing a small wager on that if I were you.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 16:55
  #10187 (permalink)  
 
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If you believe she will last five years I would be placing a small wager on that if I were you
and I'll cover it at 2:1
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 17:37
  #10188 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
If you believe she will last five years I would be placing a small wager on that if I were you.
I'm not sure she'll last five months. The party - that might struggle on for 5 years, struggle being the operative word. I would bet on a new Tory leader calling another election in 2-3 years time. By which time the bizarre Corbyn love-in might have faded.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 17:55
  #10189 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Yet despite her "total arseness" she is still in No 10 with the Conservatives in power.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 18:03
  #10190 (permalink)  
 
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They may be under power but the rudder is inoperative. I cannot imagine what is going to happen when the Brexit talks are due to begin tomorrow week.

Corbyn lost, there can be no doubt about that, but to deprive them of power combined with direction is probably as much as he could hope to achieve. And it's ultimately extremely damaging to them as a political force.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 18:16
  #10191 (permalink)  
 
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Journalists were shouting the usual "are you going to resign" mantra at May.

Will they be shouting the same at Corbyn, now that this has surfaced?

https://youtu.be/9nACseIhsq4

"Every Labour leader who loses an election usually goes"

Another broken Labour promise.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 18:21
  #10192 (permalink)  
 
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A bad result? Corbyn is a bit like Lincoln City getting to the fifth round of the FA cup. May is like Liverpool getting knocked out by a Championship team.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 18:36
  #10193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
A bad result? Corbyn is a bit like Lincoln City getting to the fifth round of the FA cup. May is like Liverpool getting knocked out by a Championship team.
Agreed in advance

Context Dear Boy. If Port Talbot Town lose 11-10 on penalties to Man Utd in the FA Cup Final, everyone would think it a 'victory', without the win. A slaughter would be the expected result. In April, the script was for such a wipeout that Labour would be in the wilderness for a generation. They're not.
Great minds...

CG
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 18:41
  #10194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
A bad result? Corbyn is a bit like Lincoln City getting to the fifth round of the FA cup. May is like Liverpool getting knocked out by a Championship team.
Liverpool got knocked out by Wolves (a championship team) but went on to have a good season. Just saying.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 18:47
  #10195 (permalink)  

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“The cold hard fact is that if I lose just six seats I will lose this election, and Jeremy Corbyn will be sitting down to negotiate with the presidents, prime ministers and chancellors of Europe,”

The scare tactic did not work.
This is what I've been banging on about. It wasn't just a scare tactic.

It wasn't true at the time and events have proved it to be untrue. She didn't lose 'just' six seats, she lost more and yet JC is not sitting down with the heads of Europe. End of.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 19:01
  #10196 (permalink)  
 
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The trouble the Tories have is that they've now lost their main supposed selling point - credibility. Once gone it's very hard to get back, as John Major discovered. Expect to see a lot of the public openly laughing at Tory MPs on question time etc. A narrative of being seen as a bit of a joke and totally incompetent doesn't tend to end well for governments.

Labour meanwhile has hugely gained credibility once people were given the chance to make up heir own minds and seen that they actually rather like their policies. And yes it's worth noting Corbyn got the same % of the vote as man of the people Blair did in 2001, incredible given that Blair was feted by all. The brexit vote meant the Tories crawled over with the help of their bigoted friends in the DUP. And those votes probably won't exist next time.

And of course there is the damage to the Tories reputation that teaming up with the DUP will do, all their efforts at detoxifying the brand wiped out in a stroke. I personally would bet on labour winning the next one as things stand.

Last edited by neila83; 11th Jun 2017 at 19:16.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 19:19
  #10197 (permalink)  
 
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Good heavens, was that Michael Gove I just saw swanning out the front door of No. 10 with his new shiny cabinet post in hand?

Wow. Wonders never cease. Guess his sorta purdah on the back benches has concluded.

Hope they remove all sharp objects from the meeting room the first time the new cabinet sit down with BoJo and Gove near one another.

Oh well, politics and all that...
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 19:43
  #10198 (permalink)  
 
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My take.

Long time Tory, yes, I did support Labour at Uni.

Corbyn is gone whatever he says, he couldn't mount an effective coalition - hopefully some smart chap/ess comes along and becomes the next leader.

The Tories need to find a "non grey suit" leader - they still have the likes of Ken (can't remember his surname) trying to interfere, the young are taking over, look at Macron, and the sooner they realise that the better.

The Tory/DUP coalition will hold until the Tories decide otherwise.

Brexit will happen and we will end up with a soft border in Ireland, the same rights for EU citizens as now but we will be the masters of our own destiny - Greece doesn't sit well in Finland.

Who cares whether we are bound by EU trade rules or the world rules.

I could live with Corbyn costing me another 2-3K in tax but could those restaurant staff, who voted for him, afford my loss of trade?

Democracy was served well by this election and the country escaped a fiscal policy that put it up there with Venezuela.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 20:05
  #10199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
"Every Labour leader who loses an election usually goes"

Another broken Labour promise.
My recollection is that in fact Corbyn promised to stay after he lost the election.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 20:14
  #10200 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
A bad result? Corbyn is a bit like Lincoln City getting to the fifth round of the FA cup. May is like Liverpool getting knocked out by a Championship team.
Terrible analogy, Lincoln would have no expectations of winning because they would be concentrating on other priorities and the FA Cup is not a two horse race

What possible other priorities could Corbyn be concentrating on

Labour v Tories is like ManU vs Chelsea. It's the two big teams. If one side loses in such a way they cannot retrieve the situation then their manager is sacked

Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
My recollection is that in fact Corbyn promised to stay after he lost the election.
Indeed, and that was why many of his fiercest critics wanted shot of him, the same people who are now slithering and sliding their way across our TV screens to align themselves to the mental marxist - Ali Campbell for instance

I feel like I need descaling after watching him on TV, how is he not in jail?
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