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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:08
  #10141 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by EGLD View Post
Age breakdown of Labour vote

18-24 9%
25-34 19%
35-44 20%
45-54 18%
55-64 18%
65+ 16%
Apologies to Jetex Jim, who has already mentioned this, but, a quick search has failed to produce any data that corroborates the above.

Maybe I was looking at the wrong sources of course.....however, possibly the figures were contrived to appeal to JB readers based on wishful thinking.

A reputable source and link should therefore prove an easy answer to the query.

And of course, you might have thought those on here who have such an impeccable scientific background would have questioned the veracity of the data immediately.....strangely enough however, bland acceptance turns out to be the case.

Any of you chaps thinking of putting yourselves forward for the two recent sits.vacant that have suddenly arisen ?

" Conventional wisdom seems to be that young people start of with idealistic left wing views, and that we shift right as we age. That might be partly true, given the smaller percentage of over 65s that voted Labour, but it's not much of a shift. Maybe the relatively large over 65 percentage was related to the ill-thought-through social care policies of the Conservatives

Never having been one to subscribe to conventional wisdom, or for that matter social convention in some areas of my life, I can cheerfully say I voted Labour due to an inherent detestation of Tory politics, Tory politicians ( except the few decent ones, rare though they are they do exist ) and the prospect of a thinly disguised autocratic and destabilising regime under the not so talented Theresa for the next five years.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 10th Jun 2017 at 17:28.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:26
  #10142 (permalink)  
 
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All I have found is these two and have not the time/inclination to work it out, I will leave that to someone better able to extrapolate the data:

https://www.ft.com/content/dac3a3b2-...af89b?mhq5j=e3

Although this one was from April 25th:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/04/25...iding-britain/

Bit of info here:

Reality Check: Has there been a surge in youth turnout? - BBC News
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:26
  #10143 (permalink)  

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Thanks for that, it's pretty illuminating, as it doesn't support the "youth vote" theory that's being bandied around in the media at all. More "fake news" perhaps?
I don't altogether buy the "youth vote" bit - except perhaps in University towns [just before the end of the Summer Term] Canterbury a good example; University of Kent quite Leftie/Snowflake/Corbynista.

But here in Teeteringshire, the average age of the population is 27 (younger than the National Average which I think is 39)and our Tory member was returned (for the 6th time) with a 16 000 majority!

Discuss!
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:52
  #10144 (permalink)  
 
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Jetex Jim,



I hope that helps.

Any explanation of UK Politics helps....as without having a Score Card it is nigh onto impossible for an American to understand what position the Players are representing.

I do see some similarities between recent some recent elections on both sides of the Atlantic.

What is glaringly plain is the Establishment Elite on both sides underestimated the Will of the People on issues.

That to me is a sign of progress....as the Elites are getting their butts kicked and the little people are having far more a say so about events than the Elites ever thought possible and certainly did not want.

Just check out how our Democrats and a radical Left are behaving....despite having seen what was coming in the 2010 Elections.

I see something similar in the Scottish Independence Vote and also the Brexit Vote.....now this latest Election in the UK.

Are the British Elite so brain dead they could not see this coming?
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 17:59
  #10145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Are the British Elite so brain dead they could not see this coming?
Certainly the Conservative party seem to have been brain dead enough to have run a campaign that was out of touch with the feelings of a large number of people, that's for sure.

Not sure they are really the elite, though, there's a pretty hard core of Conservative support from hard working people across the country, as well as big business leaders and the wealthy.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 18:08
  #10146 (permalink)  
 
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There is just small problem.......It is called "The Oath of Allegiance " !!
Yes, indeed. That's what I was referring to with "pledge" rather than saying "oath." That's why I said it was pig flying time of an idea, but maybe just this once when the stakes are high...ha.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 18:25
  #10147 (permalink)  
 
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Feel sure the pigs will remain firmly on the ground.....
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 18:45
  #10148 (permalink)  
 
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As I said elsewhere cptn. The prob with the proposed "dementia" tax is that your house will be included when you require care in your own home. This is not the case at the moment.
This fact is never mentioned by any Tory minister. & that it is policy to provide care in your own home if possible.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 18:56
  #10149 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by IcePack View Post
As I said elsewhere cptn. The prob with the proposed "dementia" tax is that your house will be included when you require care in your own home. This is not the case at the moment.
This fact is never mentioned by any Tory minister. & that it is policy to provide care in your own home if possible.
In practice, your house IS included now. Many local authorities pretty much force the sale of a house to pay for care. It may well not be central government policy, but it seems to be widespread local authority policy, and it's local authorities that pay for social care.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 19:00
  #10150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The LibDems ruled it out before the election
My understanding is that we ruled out a coalition with any of (a) May, (b) Corbyn, (c) a #brexit party, not that we ruled out any coalition at all.


So if the Tories were to sack May and rescind Article 50 (without any second referendum bollocks, obviously: just junk once and for all the whole stupid idea) then if I've understood this correctly we wouldn't be breaking our promise if we joined in. But even so I'm not sure I can see party members voting for it at the special conference. Possibly if PR were thrown in, proper PR not AV, guaranteed, without a referendum.


And there's no way the Tories would go for that lot, they're much happier with an climate change denying anti-gay creationist terrorist sympathising partner.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 19:02
  #10151 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for that, it's pretty illuminating, as it doesn't support the "youth vote" theory that's being bandied around in the media at all. More "fake news" perhaps?
Errr, no. Why is everything labeled fake news these days?

It is impossible to judge the youth vote issue without comparative data from previous elections. The increase of the youth vote does not necessarily mean that they are the biggest chunk of Labour voters, but simply that the percentage of younger voters has increased. While the data above does not allow final conclusions, the age brackets could indeed suggest that the group of voters younger than 35 is relatively large.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 19:37
  #10152 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
And there's no way the Tories would go for that lot, they're much happier with an climate change denying anti-gay creationist terrorist sympathising partner.
Actually, I doubt that very much. But if they're determined to form a government, the DUP are the only realistic option. May is expendable, but to re-open the Brexit can of worms and put PR on the table is just too much to ask. DUP support will be much cheaper, and it's not as if you can even offer significantly more MP's than them.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 19:54
  #10153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
May is expendable
That would indeed be the easy bit, and the only one they're likely to agree to.


So, to coin a phrase, no deal is better than a bad deal.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 21:34
  #10154 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder what the Queens thoughts where regarding JC forming a government.

I would love to know.

And would she prefer what we have now the Tories hanging onto power in the way they plan with the help of the DUP.

Whilst I'm on the subject of the Queen...I wonder what her views on brexit are.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 22:02
  #10155 (permalink)  
 
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I honestly thought we were in the electronic age.
Glib assumption, not everyone is. I am happy to receive literature on paper. The amount of paper used by the political parties must be infinitesimal compared with all the other "junk" mail that arrives.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 22:17
  #10156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
The DUP leader Arlene Foster nearly lost her father, a police reservist, when Corbyns IRA friends shot him in the head. The SAS later killed the gunman. Foster herself was nearly killed when Corbyns terrorist friends tried to blow up the driver of her school bus, he was a UDR soldier.

Corbyn consorts with, is feted by, and refuses to condemn terrorists the world over. Anyone who supports him carries a stain.
And if the DUP and UUP members had not burnt Catholics out of their houses who wanted the same voting rights as everybody else had in the UK in 1969, the whole bloody mess in NI wouldn't have started in the first place!!!
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 23:40
  #10157 (permalink)  
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Labour Uncut consider this election was the best that Labour under Corbyn can do.

GRASSROOTS: Has Corbyn’s elastic stretched as far as it can?

Although the dust from the general election is yet to settle and there is much ink still to be spilt it’s clear that, despite the claims of the Corbynistas, Project Corbyn has reached its limit.

Go back a couple of years and Corbyn’s path to Downing Street was essentially predicated on two principles. The first was non-voters, in the hope that they’d support Labour, and the second was attracting fellow travellers on the left, effectively a so-called progressive alliance. The naysayers countered with analyses contending that these wouldn’t provide sufficient extra support and that a majority could only be secured by attracting Conservative voters.

If we look at the headline figures the two main parties together secured approaching 85% of the vote, a significant increase since the about 67% in 2015 and a massive consequential squeeze on the smaller parties. Then there was the large increase in turnout by the key, for Corbyn, 18-24 age group.

Notwithstanding the above, and despite a poor campaign, the Conservative vote and percentage share increased, and Labour are still more than sixty seats short of a majority. It’s clear that, overall, few Conservatives were attracted to Labour and, considering Corbyn’s extremely unsavoury baggage and economic incontinence, this isn’t particularly surprising.

It may, of course, be possible to squeeze the minor parties a little more, but the share of the two main parties is at its highest since about 1970, and perhaps some more 18-24 year olds can be enticed by giveaways, but Lord Ashcroft reckons that two thirds voted for Labour, so these avenues must now be subject to the law of diminishing returns.

Whenever the next election is the Conservatives will have learned the lessons of 2017, simple things like a few devil’s advocates involved in writing the manifesto. There might even be a new leader, it’s a party that is only interested in winning and winners, with no place for sentiment.

Everything went Corbyn’s way but he still fell a long way short. His position is secure, and Labour will now probably be refashioned in his likeness, but that will not attract Conservative voters and will keep them as far from power as ever.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 00:44
  #10158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Conventional wisdom seems to be that young people start of with idealistic left wing views, and that we shift right as we age. That might be partly true, given the smaller percentage of over 65s that voted Labour, but it's not much of a shift. Maybe the relatively large over 65 percentage was related to the ill-thought-through social care policies of the Conservatives.
Well, yes, that conventional wisdom has been summed up in a famous aphorism dating to at least the 1800s, and variously attributed (despite that dating) to Edmund Burke, Benjamin Disraeli, and Winston Churchill (the last two may even have used it -"quoting the quote" in some context.)

In one of its many forms: "Anyone who is not a Socialist at 20 has no heart; anyone who is still a Socialist at 30 has no brain."

I'm surprised it didn't enter the discussion of this aspect of "UK Politics" already, given the decidedly "British" bias in purported attributions. (It "sounds like" something a conservative British wit would say. ) Maybe it's just because I read W. F. Buckley and Rand at one point - Buckley especially enjoyed bringing it up.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 01:49
  #10159 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.facebook.com/bbcthree/vi...4841158040787/
Light relief.

Mjb
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 03:12
  #10160 (permalink)  
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What you might call a decidedly unholy, sounds more sanguine than downright ( rude word ) desperate alliance .....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...riage-election

There's a certain delicious irony to the DUP's stance on same sex marriages...whilst duly climbing into the political bed with the Tories.

I knew somebody, until quite recently actually, who was a supporter of the DUP and he was adamant for example, that, the Black and Tans were a force for good and had impeccable credentials ....this despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, hence the obduracy which will soon be encountered when, lets call them "policy discussions" ensue.

On the other hand, keeping matters biblical, "as ye sow, so shall ye reap thus the choice of the soon to be deposed, thankfully, Sainted one, is quite apt really.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 11th Jun 2017 at 04:09.
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