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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

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UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 1st Jun 2017, 21:23
  #9601 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Alternative view: she saw a too good to pass up opportunity to a) ditch Cameron's manifesto, especially the triple lock; b) to take electoral advantage of Labour's disintegration; and c) to mask the total absence of her Brexit plan.

No?

CG
No

Cameron's manifesto was defunct after the referendum

Labour will disintegrate regardless of the election

If she has no plan, wait until Corbyn unveils his. Abbott to negotiate the financial settlement

No?
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 21:30
  #9602 (permalink)  
 
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Precisely like the referendum last June
How could it be made any fairer, those that bother to vote on the whole make informed decisions on who/what to vote for and the decision of the majority who bothered to vote gives the government of the day a mandate to that majority that voted.

If the decisions the government for those majority voters are bum ones then all suffer alike, if the decisions made are good ones we all join together in joyous rapture.
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 21:55
  #9603 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
No, she screwed it up when she had the arrogance to perform her first "U" turn....."No general election".

Apparently, as I said in my earlier post, I am, it seems, the only one on here to have watched the debate last night...the one with a notable absentee.
I presume you are alluding to Mrs May as leader of the Conservatives, but let us not forget that Nicola Sturgeon sent a substitute in to bat for her. I presume the Green party simply drew straws or arm wrestled between the two co-leaders.

Personally I find the whole concept of these TV debates pointless and feel they are just produced by and for the benefit of the broadcasters to bathe in smuggery,
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 22:50
  #9604 (permalink)  
 
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Theresa May Mocked For Dodging Radio 4's Women’s Hour - HuffPost UK
https://apple.news/A7fFsD6nuTw-TJ-bQA3Fn-Q

What is wrong with the woman avoiding anything not stage managed ?
She is just damaging her credibility and coming over as weak
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 22:59
  #9605 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pace View Post

What is wrong with the woman avoiding anything not stage managed ?
She is just damaging her credibility and coming over as weak
What is right with the woman, is that she is well aware of her limitations. The ability to think on her feet being one.

Spin doctor impression:

CG
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Old 1st Jun 2017, 23:48
  #9606 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by engineer(retard) View Post
I don't have to prove anything, I'm not taking him to court for murder. If he did not know for certain, he should not have met them.
Never seemed to have cause HMG duly appointed officials from talking to them.

The Tory government did not lie about meeting them, Corbyn did.
Er yes they did.....................for decades.

Jonathan Powell dislcosed as much ..........10 years ago that HMG was having discussions with PIRA since 1970's.


They were holding discussion with them during 1980's while at the same time claiming "We don't negotiate with terrorists"
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 06:08
  #9607 (permalink)  
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The difference being the government wanted to defeat them or at least get them to agree to operate democratically - Corbyn was encouraging them and wanted them to win......
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 06:22
  #9608 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Jonathan Powell dislcosed as much ..........10 years ago that HMG was having discussions with PIRA since 1970's.
Twisting facts, or worse propagating an untruth to suit your agenda does not create new facts.

What really annoyed me was his statement that the British government had spoken with the IRA in 1972, then in 1974 and 1975, and that this had led rather seamlessly to the talks which began in the late 1980s. In fact, the talks with the IRA in 1972 were an unmitigated disaster. Democratic politicians were left out of the loop, the Irish government and parliamentarians ignored. The late William Whitelaw and a handful of mandarins and spooks felt it was about time they had a look at ‘these chaps’. The IRA delegation was over the moon. For them this was 1921 all over again.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/1...-the-troubles/

The NI office and the security services were operating without the knowledge of HMG, there were no negotiations.
And of course, Powell became a Labour stooge who went on to have a book to sell.
I was there, 1974-76.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 06:33
  #9609 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Never seemed to have cause HMG duly appointed officials from talking to them.



Er yes they did.....................for decades.

Jonathan Powell dislcosed as much ..........10 years ago that HMG was having discussions with PIRA since 1970's.


They were holding discussion with them during 1980's while at the same time claiming "We don't negotiate with terrorists"
Have you got evidence of that? And while you are at it, can you get some evidence that Corbyn had an official mandate for his negotiations and wasn't just fraternising with his Marxist comrades?
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 06:35
  #9610 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
Twisting facts, or worse propagating an untruth to suit your agenda does not create new facts.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/1...-the-troubles/

The NI office and the security services were operating without the knowledge of HMG, there were no negotiations.
And of course, Powell became a Labour stooge who went on to have a book to sell.
I was there, 1974-76.
Thank you,it's good to have a first hand account, instead of a political agenda
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 06:41
  #9611 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by engineer(retard) View Post
Thank you,it's good to have a first hand account, instead of a political agenda
The Spectator. Not having a political agenda?
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 07:00
  #9612 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post
The Spectator. Not having a political agenda?
I quoted a source, one of many based on historical fact (and a bit of experience).

If you dispute it, put up a credible reply along with source material to back it up.

Attacking the messenger doesn't dilute the message, it only displays the denial of reality.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 08:05
  #9613 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post
The Spectator. Not having a political agenda?
It is an article by a PIRA activist not an opinion piece. There may have been back door discussions but the UK government were not using Corbyn as an intermediary, he had no official role and no reason to lie about meeting the IRA to protect his official cover but was merely expressing solidarity with their cause.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 08:40
  #9614 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Precisely like the referendum last June
The end result maybe the same. But last June's election was won by a majority of all those eligible to vote. Whichever party wins next week is unlikely to have a majority of all those eligible to vote. Ergo the 'losing votes' will outnumber those that voted for a single party.

That is the difference.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 10:41
  #9615 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Corbyn + SNP + LibDems and that could be it for Brexit ... which is what this election is about.
It just needs Corbyn to come right out and say it. Then if you want Brexit ... vote Tory
Correction. That is what TM wantsthe election to be about. However, it is clear that the electorate want the election to be about all of the issues that are important to them and that is why her election strategy is doing so badly. Yes our leaving the EU is obviously important but if we seriously think that we can negotiate a good deal we are in for a shock. The EU will make it very difficult for us in order to preserve their strong hold over the 27. Our problem is that we simply don't manufacture enough products to have a real bargaining tool.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 12:20
  #9616 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buster15 View Post
Correction. That is what TM wantsthe election to be about.
Somewhat stymied by Corbyn refusing to play ball and actually joining in what is now the UKIP/Labour/Tory #brexit coalition of chaos.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 12:27
  #9617 (permalink)  
 
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Our problem is that we simply don't manufacture enough products to have a real bargaining tool.
Not true:

https://www.eef.org.uk/campaigning/c...ts-and-figures
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 12:28
  #9618 (permalink)  
 
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coalition of chaos
That's the EU, isn't it?
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 14:11
  #9619 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Trossie View Post
It is correct actually. If as seems possible we end up with no deal we will be subject to international trade tariff which will increase our prices. The EU know this as TM has already shown her hand. The problem then is that because we are a high cost and relatively low productivity economy our ability to secure favorable trade deals will be adversely affected.
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Old 2nd Jun 2017, 14:53
  #9620 (permalink)  
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Trade tarrifs are import taxes set by the importing nation, if the government don't charge any the price of imports from the EU to the UK will remain the same and those from outside the EU will be come far cheaper as the UK will then be outside the EU tariffs wall and can stop charging them on those nations.

The EU cannot, under WTO rules, charge the UK higher tariffs than other non-EU nations. The average WTO tariffs is 9%. There are higher tariffs, but not only goods where the UK is a major exporter. If the EU does fail to do a deal and sets tarrifs, then the UK can set import tarrifs and provide compensation to the affected exporters. Since the UK imports more from the EU than it exports then the equation will be in profit, not loss.

This neglects the insistence the EU has on doing a deal which keeps the present open tarrifs free border between Eire and NI, and any arrangement must, perforce Nd under WTO rules, apply to the whole of the UK and not part.

Last edited by ORAC; 2nd Jun 2017 at 16:08.
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