Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK politics - Hamsterwheel

Old 3rd Dec 2014, 06:37
  #5301 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere between E17487 and F75775
Age: 76
Posts: 723
If you have ever been in the visitors gallery when some vital matter to our economy was being discussed you would not dismiss it as a joke. Participation in important debates is frequently appallingly low.

(Same goes for Brussels for that matter).
OFSO is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2014, 09:47
  #5302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,437
Participation in important debates is frequently appallingly low.
Depends on all sorts of things, such as whether participating in the debate will make any difference (which it won't if, eg, it's something that, when the vote comes, is "obviously" going to be passed nearly unanimously). If not, the MP has fourteen other things s/he could usefully be doing at the same time, with listening to the debate remotely being only one of them.


Meetings I've attended in the palace of Westminster have usually involved MPs and peers running in and out of the meeting, rather than sitting quietly through the whole thing, as they're often supposed to be in several meetings at once, plus rushing into the chamber from time to time to vote.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2014, 18:06
  #5303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 57
Er, have you not heard of the fixed term parliament act? - you ain't gonna get a 2/3 majority for any other date, it's May 7th.

Which act exists precisely to stop people playing silly bu88ers as you suggest.
So now they are already playing a different sort of silly buggers - electioneering for the next six months. Then, when the next coalition is formed in May, we will be stuck for another 5 years. Historically the prime minister has had the power to call an election at the date of his choosing. That has been an essential part of our political scene which didn't suit the Libdem agenda when the coalition was formed - for obvious reasons.
The fixed term act is yet another blow to our democracy.
foresight is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2014, 18:15
  #5304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
It's probably a good idea in practical terms,but for those of us for whom elections are the equivalent of a good football match it has removed some of the fun. Choosing when to go for it was the equivalent of a manager deciding who to play and in what formation.

I wonder if Cameron would be cutting and running now or hanging on waiting for the polls to improve.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 14:24
  #5305 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
Posts: 1,859
Jeremy Thorpe.
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 14:56
  #5306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 425
Foresight,

How is a fixed term parliament a blow to democracy?
BillHicksRules is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 17:21
  #5307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 57
How is a fixed term parliament a blow to democracy?

Fixed terms are more suited to a presidential system.

It seems likely we are in for a period of coalition governments. The Prime Minister ( presumably the leader of the largest party) could well find himself unable to carry out the policies he wants, because his hands are tied by his coalition partners. Under the historic system, he could go to the country to seek a fresh mandate and break the deadlock.

Under the fixed term system, unless he has the support of 2/3 of MPs, he has to sit out the end of the five year term, possibly inflicting several years of sclerotic government on the country. This is to no-ones benefit. Indeed it could inflict serious damage.

The Libdems especially, though they are not alone in this, treat constitutional change too lightly (the fixed term act was a sop to Clegg). Some things seem sensible at first glance, but have all sorts of ramifications. Elected House of Lords anyone?
foresight is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 17:47
  #5308 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by foresight
Some things seem sensible at first glance
Like proportional representation . . .
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 19:41
  #5309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 895
I recall the Private Eys headline in connection with "Mr Thrope"

VOTE LIBERAL OR WE'LL SHOOT YOUR DOG
vulcanised is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 19:49
  #5310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Newcastle/UK
Posts: 1,473
Wonder if Scott of the Arse Antic is still alive.
If I remember correctly Scott threatened to blow the whistle, which was a change from what he had been blowing for Thorpe and the Liberals hired a hit man to kill him,you could have a bit of respect for the liberals in those days.
tony draper is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 19:58
  #5311 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere between E17487 and F75775
Age: 76
Posts: 723
AND HERE IT IS !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyos-M48B8U
OFSO is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 20:13
  #5312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dorset
Posts: 224
I remember graffiti on the gents wall at Blackpool airport, c1979


"What does a BIA pilot drink?"
Ans " Luger and lime"


This being a reference to the hit man actually being a pilot at BIA, further details escape me after all this time, but it was a very strange story.
om15 is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2014, 04:29
  #5313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 68
Posts: 904
Blair fails to understand the distinction between "wealth" and "worth".

Tony Blair claims he is only worth £10 million - Telegraph

I think we all know who benefits from his "worth".
sitigeltfel is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2014, 04:39
  #5314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 68
Posts: 904
Originally Posted by tony draper View Post
Wonder if Scott of the Arse Antic is still alive.
If I remember correctly Scott threatened to blow the whistle, which was a change from what he had been blowing for Thorpe and the Liberals hired a hit man to kill him,you could have a bit of respect for the liberals in those days.
Here you are, Mr D.

Jeremy Thorpe scandal: where are they now? - Telegraph

Looks like Scotty dog has outlived them all.

I wonder if he will re-surface to tell all to the salacious press?
sitigeltfel is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2014, 04:58
  #5315 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 1
This is from today's, Friday, Guardian:

The two main parties, therefore, go into the election battle with quite different approaches. Osborne would like to run a budget surplus by the end of the next parliament. His Labour shadow Ed Balls is only aiming to balance the budget for day-to-day government spending and would borrow to invest. The gap between the two main parties is at its widest for decades.

The Guardian has, perhaps totally unwittingly, thrown its hat into the Conservative ring.
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2014, 06:47
  #5316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
Only the monetarist economists see it that way.Take this scenario,it is one I was in thirty years ago. You are running a business and ,whilst making a profit,it isn't going anywhere. You are balancing the books so you could just carry on as you are.

Alternatively you can borrow more. Of course you have the interest costs but if you generate more profit than those you are ahead. I was a one man car trader selling between dealers.It was ok-ish, I sold about a car a week and made roughly the equivalent of a weekly working wage.

I took a fifty grand loan and bought a redundant filling station from Mobil Oil. A year later I employed six other people and my turnover was 600% higher. It is exactly the same on a larger scale. Spending isn't wasted it goes around the economy several times over. People buy cars and beer,dinners in restaurants, they go to the cinema which then sells more popcorn.

The tight fisted monetarist approach contracts economies,lowers wages and lowers demand.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2014, 08:02
  #5317 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 54
Posts: 909
It’s a fair comment, but I suspect that you – as a business owner who stands to either personally benefit or suffer from the results of your business decisions – are likely to be far more competent and careful with that investment than HM Government, who don’t have a particularly good track record when it comes to throwing other people’s money around.

Also, I suspect that Ed Balls will re-interpret “investment” any way he chooses; the last government used to boast about how they were “investing in public services”, when it reality they were simply p****** it up against a wall.
Andy_S is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2014, 09:18
  #5318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 38
Andy has it right. Private businesses borrowing to invest in the company are a different kettle of fish. This sort of thing generates wealth at many levels. I am sure you made every effort to pay that loan back as quickly as possible from your increased profits. Governments, however, will borrow to invest, then borrow more, then borrow more and never pay it back. There may very well not be much positive outcome from their investments but that will not stop them borrowing more. Labour still believe they can borrow their way out of trouble. They have tried it before and failed every time. What makes you think it will be different next time?
Nick Riviera is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2014, 14:20
  #5319 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
What makes you say we are "In trouble"? How many times have you missed your dinner in the last six years due to lack of funds? Much as I hate to agree with Mr .Clarkson,doyen of the Chipping Sodbury set, people on benefits can exist quite comfortably. They won't have money for scratchcards and lottery tickets and they won't be able to smoke forty Senior Service a day,but they will have enough to eat.

The real problems are on the next step. The working poor have a hard time. Two on minimum wage clear as little as £450 a week so over half the household income goes on housing and associated costs. Assuming different places/times of work another big slice goes on transport costs which benefit claimants don't have. Add in a zero hours contract for one or both and they have problems.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2014, 19:44
  #5320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 60
The latest economic polling shows a large decline in the percentage of people expecting the economy to improve in the next year. It had been running at around 40%, latest polls put it in the mid twenties.

A car dealer near me was telling me this week that in an attempt to move some metal he did a big promotion last weekend with £2000 off many of his cars. (Actually offering them at several hundred pounds under cost). He sold nothing and had no enquiries.
Effluent Man is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.