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Body Scanning - no scan, no fly.

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Body Scanning - no scan, no fly.

Old 1st Feb 2010, 14:47
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Body Scanning - no scan, no fly.

BBC News - 'No scan, no flight' at Heathrow and Manchester

BBC website carrying this. I find it somewhat amusing that the story which proclaims:
The image generated by the body scanner cannot be stored or captured
is itself illustrated with (right first time) an image of a body scan.
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 14:52
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The Department of Transport has published an interim code of practice covering privacy, health and safety, data protection and equality issues. "The code will require airports to undertake scanning sensitively, having regard to the rights of passengers," Lord Adonis said.
Yeah, right - sensitivity being the middle name of anyone working in airport "security".
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 18:12
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Anyone who sits in a darkened room looking at pictures of the naked public on a television screen would normally be put on the sex offenders register.
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 18:23
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this got bumped from R&N to the SLF forum....

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...-officers.html


a question i posed in that thread when in R&N was this..


Transport Secretary Lord Adonis said in the immediate future only a small proportion of airline passengers would be selected for scanning.

In a written statement to the House of Commons, he said: "If a passenger is selected for scanning, and declines, they will not be permitted to fly."
So then is this a statute law ? If not, then how could it be enforced ?

If a passenger declines, they are then being subject to financial penalty and restriction of freedom of movement without fair trial and not subject to statue law ?

perhaps one of the PPRuNe legal specialists could provide input ?
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 19:03
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I'm going to have to work out more now if I don't want them seeing my love handles!
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 20:49
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I keep wondering if an individual with certain leanings might post for the opening to review these images out of sight during the security scanning. Then I got to thinking about how very shortly this is probably akin to autopsy viewings (you need a puke bucket nearby just in case)
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 02:44
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So then is this a statute law ? If not, then how could it be enforced ?
It doesn't need to be law.
You are opting to use the services of a private company (BAA or whoever is running the airport in question), and if you don't abide by their terms and conditions, they can stop you using that service.

There is no law (as far as I'm aware) that states it's illegal to walk around a supermarket barefooted and (for men) without a top on, but Tesco can and will refuse you entry if you turn up dressed like this.
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 07:33
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419, thanks for the reply..

that throws up a couple of additional questions...

one.. Lord Adonis, the Transport Secretary presented this in a written statement, and as such is a directive of the government, not BAA, so it is not the terms of BAA's conditions of service, but is set forth from government..

In a written statement to the House of Commons, he said: "If a passenger is selected for scanning, and declines, they will not be permitted to fly."
The other question is that if a passenger has a ticket with BA/AF/AA etc. they have a contract with that carrier. BAA is a supplier of services to that carrier so in effect, a third party who is implementing terms set forth by government which are not statute law affects the ability of the contract between passenger and operator to be fulfilled with no dispute between the passenger and carrier who are the contracted parties. So how would that work ?

another question is that it is it in effect placing security personnel in position of power, which may or may not be mandated within the law, outside judicial review and provides the capacity to place punitive damages on crew and passengers at will and with no recourse.

eg:

- "Sorry mate, you've been selected to be scanned"
- "Not again! Look that's the the third time this week and I'm in uniform. there's a backlog at the scanner and push back will be delayed if I wait."
- "Right, you're declining. I'm prohibiting you access to the departure area. You cannot fly"
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 07:36
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Following the underpants bomber scare, Gordon Brown was quick to follow the US in committing to full body scanners at UK airports, even though the machines are unlikely to detect liquid or plastic explosives favored by terrorists.

But the move is good news for American scanner makers RapiScan, whose machines were already being trialled at Manchester Airport and standing idle at Heathrow due to privacy concerns.

In the week following the attempted bombing former US homeland security chief Michael Chertoff me the media rounds and was widely quoted calling for congress to "fund a large scale deployment of next generation systems" and blaming the ACLU (American Civil liberties Union) for making "specious" objections to the machines.

Eventually, and only in response to a direct question on CNN, Chertoff admitted that RapiScan is a client of his lobbying firm Chertoff Group.
Courtesy of Private Eye 8th Jan - 21st Jan edition.
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 07:42
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Will they have extra large scan cubicles for John Prescott and Americans?

or is that the end of their flying through BAA
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 08:17
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Metallised Mylar underpants might cause a problem or two for them!
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 08:20
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Would Lord Adonis live up to his name when scanned by the machine?

Female security agents would flock around the monitor
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 08:23
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I'm an exhibitionist - bring 'em on !
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 10:25
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If the images appear on an ordinary PC linked up to the scanner, capturing the images is easy - Ctl/PrintScrn.

Or, as has been pointed out, a camera-equipped mobile phone.
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 11:39
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From the Rapiscan website (Rapiscan Secure 1000 Single Pose):

How much X-ray Radiation Exposure is Generated by the Secure 1000?The amount of x-ray energy generated by the Secure 1000 is very small, in fact much less than naturally occurring background radiation people are exposed to. For example:

A person would have to be inspected 1,000 times by the Secure 1000 to receive the equivalent of one typical medical chest x-ray.
In one day on Earth, a person is exposed to 60 times more radiation than in one inspection by the Secure 1000.
In one minute of a typical commercial aviation flight, a person receives the same amount of radiation exposure that they would from one inspection by the Secure 1000.
So if you go through one of these every day you go to work, which for Airside workers and Pilots might be in excess of 200 days a year...in 5 years or less you've had the equivalent of a medical chest x-ray.

I seem to remember being told that there was a limit to the number of chest x-rays you could under-go safely in your lifetime....anyone?

I do not like the idea of having to expose myself to extra levels of X-Ray radiation so that I can do the job for which I have already been extensively security screened!
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 12:17
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If you wave your willy at them, can they stop you flying?

Just asking.
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 12:32
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"Anyone who sits in a darkened room looking at pictures of the naked public on a television screen would normally be put on the sex offenders register."

After a few hours I should think they'd be dragged off to a padded cell!

The average person is not very attractive, to say the least....

Happily s/he doesn't have to smell 'em.



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Old 3rd Feb 2010, 07:19
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Apparently, I smell like a biscuit. A dog biscuit. At least, that's what Pedro and Pablo think...
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Old 3rd Feb 2010, 07:31
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Originally Posted by 419
There is no law (as far as I'm aware) that states it's illegal to walk around a supermarket barefooted and (for men) without a top on, but Tesco can and will refuse you entry if you turn up dressed like this.
Harrods will have you removed from their hallowed portals for far lesser dress code violations than that!

Originally Posted by ComJam
I seem to remember being told that there was a limit to the number of chest x-rays you could under-go safely in your lifetime....anyone?
I briefly recall from somewhere (School? College? GP mate?) that there is no safe level for radiation exposure. Which is why some people involved in nuclear events have survived for years whilst others have contracted all manner of nastiness after only a short exposure.
Apparently if the radiation "gets lucky" and causes some cells to mutate then it's pure chance whether it happens after one exposure or after several thousand.
The "safe limits" are just doses at which the risk is deemed to be acceptable. But acceptable to whom?

Again, perfectly happy to be corrected by those with more biological knowledge than I.
Which is pretty much everyone!
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Old 3rd Feb 2010, 08:59
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I used to perform the servicing on Autolycus detector units, which didn't come into the Instrumant Calibration Laboratory very often. When doing this I had to wear an exposure badge. I accidentally left my badge in the "special servicing" room where I did this work for over a month, where it was in more or less close proximity to a couple of spare isotope elements. Later, when my badge was taken for its routine readout I was taken off the job and, I suspect, banned from doing any further work with radio-active materials. Quite a good result I reckon, as I spent the rest of my service in Transport/Air Support Command.

A colleague who spent a few days in Darwin reported that he was in the supermarket when a local Ozzie chap came in dripping wet and wearing only a towel and flip-flops; he bought a bottle of shampoo and left again - presumably to finish the shower that he'd already started.
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