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Pakistan. Will it fall?

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Pakistan. Will it fall?

Old 5th May 2009, 19:12
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Pakistan. Will it fall?

The Taliban and their allies are ever so slowly moving toward the Capital, Islamabad. Last reports show nearly 500,000 people fleeing from the Taliban to the south away from the Swat Valley.

As the Pakistan Government has already given away the Swat Valley to the Taliban, will they ever draw a line in the sand and try to stop them from taking over Islamabad?

Should the UN get involved and if so to what extreme?

Least not forget that Pakistan has nuclear weapons.
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Old 5th May 2009, 19:15
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Well they could always use them on the Taliban.
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Old 5th May 2009, 19:42
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And what could the UN do?

To change the Pakistani Political Framework will obviously require changing its Society. An effort that would be considerable in terms of US Investment over a sustained period of time.

I would say that Pakistan is almost a failed state (if not one now), the distinction in semantics purely down to your political viewpoint.

If it weren't for the Nukes the US would be looking at another Afghanistan (and Pakistan is of far more strategic importance).

Far more dangerous than Iraq ever was.
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Old 5th May 2009, 19:42
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Given that the Pakistan government has been warning civilians to get out of Taliban-controlled areas, including the Swat Valley, I'm guessing that they do not intend to give up quietly. The NY Times report is a good summary of the situation today.
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Old 5th May 2009, 19:57
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Would this be the same Pakistan government that complains bitterly whenever the US target a few Taliban in their vicinity?
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Old 5th May 2009, 20:12
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No one really cares.

Just bomb and take out the nuke storage sites.
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Old 5th May 2009, 20:16
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Well, why not? They're a government, with ideas about sovereignty and borders, which means that it matters to them who launches attacks on their territory. Maybe it's simply wanting to be seen as an effective government, instead of one that has the USA doing its dirty work for them. In short: Politics.
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Old 5th May 2009, 20:42
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No one really cares.

Just bomb and take out the nuke storage sites.
George?....
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Old 5th May 2009, 20:42
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Pakistan, partitioned in 1947, has always had difficulties with tribal populations, and the Taleban, as a tribal group, albeit extreme, are no different to the warlords in Baluchistan.

The country is enormous with diverse cultures and political loyalties: notably the dynasty of the Bhutto's has been the most marketable in the west.

Kashmir is still unresolved albeit it has become dormant with the aggression from the Taleban.

The Pakistani's are, like the Turks, the moderate face of Islam and if they need our help we should be there without trying to dominate.
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Old 5th May 2009, 20:48
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The Pakistani's are, like the Turks, the moderate face of Islam and if they need our help we should be there without trying to dominate.
well said
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Old 5th May 2009, 21:45
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They have a strong and well-equipped army which should, with western support, be able to roll back this latest insurrection. Hopefully those dissident factions within the ISI will see which side their bread is buttered on. Tribal territories will probably remain no-go areas forever.

No doubt India and Iran are looking on with some trepidation (maybe that's why the latter wants to go nuclear?)
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Old 5th May 2009, 21:54
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There is a big problem with letting some (lacking) (lesser) countries have nukes.
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Old 6th May 2009, 05:48
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There is a big problem with letting some (lacking) (lesser) countries have nukes.
You're talking about Israel arn't you? Wait with the current financial crisis the west has created i could name the great satan (aka USA), England, Europe etc as being lesser? How do you define lesser?

I don't think the world let Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea etc have nukes it's just they simply could not do anything about it.

When you think of other countries as lesser that's where the problem starts. Let's unite on one fact and that is we are human beings and we need to work together to solve our problems
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Old 6th May 2009, 06:01
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ah yes human beings, some responsible, some stupid. like Pakistan, India and ABOVE ALL NORTH KOREA

Get real, there are lesser, stupider countries.
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Old 6th May 2009, 06:43
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ah yes human beings, some responsible, some stupid. like Pakistan, India and ABOVE ALL NORTH KOREA

Get real, there are lesser, stupider countries.
Your response clearly indicates which type of human being you are

Anyhow i've had enough of this thread, i'm sure you will come back with another well thought out opinion.

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Old 6th May 2009, 07:14
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Tribal territories will probably remain no-go areas forever.
They have been since at least the time of Kublai Khan; Alexandra the Great even.

The Northern part of Pakistan was what the British Empire called the North West Frontier. Britain never managed to control the region and nor has Pakistan. Pakistan national law applies along the surfaced roads and for twenty meters each side. Beyond that or in places where the roads are unpaved, by mutual agreement between the government and the tribal elders, tribal law applies.

Wherever the Taleban have seized control, Talibani interpretation of Sharia Law applies, regardless of the road surface. A major problem with that is, with the Taliban not being learned scholars, their version of the Sharia is a strange deviationist mix of Islamic, tribal and pre-islamic customary law.
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Old 6th May 2009, 09:05
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If Pakistan does fall, what will happen to the Countries below it?
Would they all just move down a bit, or would Pakistan just slip further out into the sea?

Last edited by GroundedSLF; 6th May 2009 at 09:10. Reason: spelling
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Old 6th May 2009, 09:15
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Tectonically speaking (first time I've said that in a while), Pakistan is actually be shoved up into the Himlayas by India. S'probably while their getting so uppity - they don't fancy living at 30000 feet.
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Old 6th May 2009, 09:21
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Two options:

1. Split the country into 2 and let the loonies manage their own affairs.

2. Smash the beejesus out of the loonies, sparing none, and seal the border with Afghanistan.
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Old 6th May 2009, 09:27
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Originally Posted by Rollingthunder View Post
ah yes human beings, some responsible, some stupid. like Pakistan, India and ABOVE ALL NORTH KOREA

Get real, there are lesser, stupider countries.
"ABOVE ALL NORTH KOREA"

Can't say more than....... INDEED! They frighten me. If anyone thinks they do not still covet the south, (for a start) they might do well to think again.
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