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More Jetstar Trips

Old 6th Sep 2008, 02:17
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 166
ditto................
captaintunedog777 is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 03:24
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 1,324
You guys just don't get it. The sheer frustration of watching Qantas aircraft and the many subsequent promotions go to Jetstar to be flown by pilots on seriously lower wages forces me to vent my spleen on PPRuNe.

I don't apologise for that...and I know I'm not the only one in Qantas who thinks that way.

Despite earlier misgivings I am willing to sit back and give Alan Joyce a fair go. I didn't say anywhere in my post anything to the contrary.

Cheers

P.S. tunedog, thanks for your usual brilliant insight.
Transition Layer is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 03:37
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 824
Ah.............

That would be "Captain" tunedog
speedbirdhouse is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 03:51
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Global Drifter
Age: 60
Posts: 24
Jetbest,

1.No load control.Jq pilots do there own.QF have over 200 people in load control.
2.JQ use mostly Flap 1 takeoffs.QF always use flap2.Airbus state that Flap 1 uses up to 600kg less on takeoff and can be higher saving depending on flap retraction timing.
3.JQ tailor flap and Flex.At present JQ are using up to 5degress better flex at same weights and R/W.Each 1degree is $100,000 saving PA.

Not wanting to get into a JQ, QF bash as I think both outfits have a place and opportunity to be very successful. But, I question your figures.

I don't know where you get your figures from, but suggest you read "Getting to grips with Fuel Economy" by Airbus.

1. Using Config 2 rather than Config 1+F uses 12kg more fuel for the A330 during a full thrust take-off, the penalty increases with flex a bit. Where did you get the 600kg from?

2. Higher flex will actually cost more in fuel due to longer time at lower altitude. The savings come in reduced engine wear. $100k per 1 degree figure seems a lot, can you provide a reference? Considering the engines are leased.

3. QF operate the A330-300's that have an increased risk of tailstrike over the 200, Config 2 might just be a conservative bit of insurance for them. Also, runway surfaces in places like VVTS and WADD are quite rough, so getting off sooner with Config 2 may not be such a bad idea. Could there be a long term cost in gear maintenance? I don't know.

4. How many delays are due to the JQ self load control system. Put a price on it?

5. As I understand it, JQ fuel policy is a lot more conservative than QF with alternate requirements etc. How much is it costing to carry this "extra" fuel.

$10m per year. Sure this isn't just management spin? No doubt crew costs are cheaper for JQ than QF and there are savings in ancillary items like catering etc, but all this other stuff you think about operating efficiencies is pure swings and roundabouts, tit for tat. Don't fall for it.

Again, I would like to see both JQ and QF grow and prosper, so don't take this as anti-anything, except management spin that is.
Captain Marvel is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 04:13
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 166
Transition

Son I believe Q offer psychiatrichelp at no cost. Otherwise go somewhere private and scream I hate Jetstar a couple of times a day. It should do wonders for you and stop making us read ya crap. But then again if you have any balls go onto Qrewroom and vent there with ya name present for all of Q and Jetstar to read.
captaintunedog777 is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 06:09
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 355
TL- Your frustration is understandable but don't make it personal. No one is forcing you to do anything. For a lot of pilot's in Jetstar this is the first airline they have been in where this pace of promotion and expansion has been so rapid. It took me fifteen years to get a "rapid" command. If you are unhappy in Qantas then look at alternatives but if you are happy to stay don't worry about the things that you have no control of. At least you know that in Qantas eventually the career treadmill will get you a command-just longer than it would have taken if you had gone to Jetstar.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 06:42
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 319
Good advice
Wingspar is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 08:03
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 12
Captain Marvel.
1. Using Config 2 rather than Config 1+F uses 12kg more fuel for the A330 during a full thrust take-off, the penalty increases with flex a bit. Where did you get the 600kg from?

2. Higher flex will actually cost more in fuel due to longer time at lower altitude. The savings come in reduced engine wear. $100k per 1 degree figure seems a lot, can you provide a reference? Considering the engines are leased.

3. QF operate the A330-300's that have an increased risk of tailstrike over the 200, Config 2 might just be a conservative bit of insurance for them. Also, runway surfaces in places like VVTS and WADD are quite rough, so getting off sooner with Config 2 may not be such a bad idea. Could there be a long term cost in gear maintenance? I don't know.

4. How many delays are due to the JQ self load control system. Put a price on it?

5. As I understand it, JQ fuel policy is a lot more conservative than QF with alternate requirements etc. How much is it costing to carry this "extra" fuel.

1.The operative word here is full thrust takeoff.The 12kg you mention is on the takeoff roll not once airborne.Flap 2 with NADP 1 uses up to 600kg more fuel.Try it in the SIM!!!
2.You are correct re engines being leased.Talk to QF engineering.My figures re flex tkoffs are correct in dollar savings re the lease agreement.It is the same reason we do not use derated climb figures as this wud cost us money,again the lease agreement!!!
3.Flap 2 does give better tailstrike protection.However as profesional pilots i think we shud all know how to avoid one.To get a tailstrike requires some serious mishandling.Again try it in the sim.Hardly a reason to burn more fuel.
4.The delays re our load system only occurr in OZ.QF cannot get the paperwork to us till all holds closed,there rule not ours!!!!This does no occur with other ground handlers in other countries.
5.The JQ fuel policy is conservative but a total rewrite is now under way.We do not require alternates into OZ.Most excess fuel is to cover ETOPS regs but do agree needs a rework.
P.S.A QF 767 had a unsceduled landing at WADD last week.The WIII bound aircraft decided that the WX in WIII was not good so diverted to take on fuel.TAF and MEtAR had 4000m vis[do not know QF policy].Due to your work rules the only reason the aircraft was not stranded was the fact that a check Capt was onboard and used 3 crew ops.We do not have such problems with CAO 48 exeption and work rules.I can see the bad press now for all of us if the aircraft was stranded.

My point here that by working smarter and better we will all have a future in the QF group and in aviation in general..The rubbish i read on Qroom re EBA 8,even though you will still have incredible conditions and pay[767 pilots on 747-400 pay] does not bode well for our future survival.Only time will tell.
Jetbest is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 08:38
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Darwin
Posts: 321
The rubbish i read on Qroom re EBA 8,even though you will still have incredible conditions and pay[767 pilots on 747-400 pay] does not bode well for our future survival
Could you be a bit more specific?

What do you deem rubbish?
What The is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 21:39
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Downunder
Posts: 62
The delays re our load system only occurr in OZ.QF cannot get the paperwork to us till all holds closed,there rule not ours!!!!This does no occur with other ground handlers in other countries.
------------------

This is actually group policy, not just QF. Mandated by CASA after a serious of problems a couple of years back. Final LIR being presented overseas much earlier (before loading complete), by supposed organised ground handlers, can lead to a whole host of concerns much worse than a few delays! Depends on full circumstances of course and cannot be taken on its own.

The answer is pobably in a balance of the two scenarios and getting flights loaded on time, or a sensible load control option for JQ.
TMAK is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 23:07
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731

]P.S.A QF 767 had a unsceduled landing at WADD last week.The WIII bound aircraft decided that the WX in WIII was not good so diverted to take on fuel.TAF and MEtAR had 4000m vis[do not know QF policy].
I call your bluff.
Was the WIII forecast endorsed TS for the arrival period, yes or no?
breakfastburrito is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2008, 23:21
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 70
Posts: 882
Ah the Qantas fuel saving policy.
I thought only idiots and management wannabe's carried min op on short/medium haul flights!
blow.n.gasket is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2008, 08:29
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 1,324
Why the hell was this moved to Jet Blast?

The thread is mainly about Fuel policy, aircraft performance, SOPs and pilot wages.

Mmmm...weird.
Transition Layer is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2008, 06:21
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: airside
Posts: 518
Captaintunedogs reply to Transition:
Son I believe Q offer psychiatrichelp at no cost. Otherwise go somewhere private and scream I hate Jetstar a couple of times a day. It should do wonders for you and stop making us read ya crap. But then again if you have any balls go onto Qrewroom and vent there with ya name present for all of Q and Jetstar to read.



Tunedog when will Qantas crew get access to read the JetStar chatroom??

I'm sure if they could there would be a lot less dribble posted there too!
max autobrakes is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2008, 02:38
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YPPH
Age: 34
Posts: 5
Although, i cant find a public announcement on this in the news, but if you look at Jeststar's route pages you will see, and i thought it relevent here because every one is slaging off JST.

Jetsrar are expanding their Perth operations to include a international servce with 3 return trips to Bali starting Monday 27th of October, and 3 return trips to Jakata, starting 28th October

Then in December, to Singapore from perth

Skystar will be handeling their groud operations at Perth

Oh how i know this, is because if it was not tru i wouldnt have a job starting on the 27th of october
AAA578 is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2008, 04:26
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 785
Angry

Jetsrar are expanding their Perth operations to include a international servce with 3 return trips to Bali starting Monday 27th of October, and 3 return trips to Jakata, starting 28th October
Jetstar expanding? Well, that's just a novel way of saying that Qantas Mainline is contracting. What a mob of spinning parasites this mob is!
Ken Borough is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2008, 04:50
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YPPH
Age: 34
Posts: 5
What??

That was my own words, what else are they doing if not expanding?
AAA578 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2009, 23:36
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over the Planet
Posts: 785
Bringing this back to the top with the original comment

The press release said, "Jetstar this week began operating direct services from Darwin to Sydney and Ho Chi Minh City".

What has really happened is that due to incredibly poor loads, (on one flight 14 pax), J* has abandoned it's A330 service SYD-TSN, and will now operate an A321 SYD-DRW-TSN.

Is J*Int becoming the proverbial millstone?
The answer would appear to be 'yes'. The numbers are now in with respect to traffic carried in the first two months of the Darwin hub option: September saw Jet* total Vietnam traffic fall 20.6% while October improved marginally with a fall of just 19.5%, both compared with the same months in 2007.

Is it any wonder that the punters are deserting them on this route in droves? As their scheduling is woeful with extended transits in Darwin in each direction, why would anyone but a masochist or scrooge want to fly in an A320 from Sydney or Melbourne when they have the option of a full service carrier offering non-stop flights from each main southern city with modern wide-bodied equipment?

Northbound from Sydney, a punter has to endure 2 hours in Darwin while coming home, he spends two and a half hours there. To help pass the time, are the punters required to collect their baggage and check-in again for the second sector.

If this is a sample of Jetstar's concept of a hub, then it won't last all that long. Are they scheduling to suit themselves or to serve the market? It's about time one of the smarter journos picked up on things like this and exposed Jetstar for what they are.

Mods: isn't the appropriate forum for this thread D&G Reporting Points?
Ken Borough is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2009, 08:27
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 70
Posts: 882
Wouldn't have anything to do with the NT Gov $5 million business grant would it?
What was it 3 aircraft or something to be based in Darwin?
JetStar wouldn't be doing a fudge here would they?
blow.n.gasket is offline  

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