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What is this "coming down" business?

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What is this "coming down" business?

Old 6th Mar 2008, 12:20
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What is this "coming down" business?

Heard Emirates the other day replying to a new issued squawk code. "1234 coming down, emirates ***"

For goodness sake, cant emirates teach their "pilots" to stop talking rubbish on the radio? What is coming down, where,??

Thought we got rid of this years ago.

Keep being told by my ex airline collegues, how great airline pilots are with their fantastic standards and rigid SOP's and everyone else is a "bush pilot". Yeah right...
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 12:25
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Heard 'Coming Down' when it first impinged on my consciousness in the 70s. The skipper had 'picked up' the jargon from listening to the professionals.

We ribbed him unmercifully until he stopped it. We also stopped him smoking

Now do the professionals use Roger?

Or the really professional use Roger that.

Until my daughter told me how she cracked up whenever she heard roger that I had never given it a thought. Now whenever I read an American techno-thriller they are rogering that all the time.

I wouldn't want to be that
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 13:48
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For blowing my personal fuse, "coming down" and other such affectations pale into insignificance beside "The Emirates", something heard all too frequently from the Sandpit fleet, particularly with a Home Counties or thereabouts accent.

Offhand, I can't think of anything that sounds more wannabe pretentious.
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 13:53
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Prolly nicked from the Merchant Navy.

Call up on Ch.16. Agree freq. change to Ch.69 Response invariably Channel 69 going down
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 14:02
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Wiley

Yes "THE Emirates" takes the big biscuit alright.

It's going to be unbearable for us mare mortals when the A380 comes online!
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 15:26
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Surely going from Ch.16 to Ch.69 would be "going up"?
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Old 6th Mar 2008, 15:33
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Going to 69 is definetly "going down".
 
Old 6th Mar 2008, 22:20
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Wader, you may be surprised to know that 'Roger' is approved and correct terminology in international aviation use, meaning 'Message received and understood', as is 'Wilco', which means 'I will comply with your instruction'.

So while your mirth is understandable, it's a bit misguided. Pilots and air traffic controllers are rogering away worldwide as we speak!
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 00:43
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Yes army, roger does indeed have a very specific meaning. However "roger that" I believe does not.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 00:49
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True. I should have added before that I've heard 'roger that' used a lot, as well as (less frequently) 'roger dodger', sometimes abbreviated to 'roger D', which somehow also mutates into 'roger dog' and even 'roger frog'!
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 00:51
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What about 'Over' and 'Over and out'?
(as used by Tony Hancock in his Test Pilot sketch IIRC)
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 01:01
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no, that's not part of terminology. The end of the message is usually denoted by the use of the station callsign, (a station being any entity approved to transmit. Counterintuitively an aircraft is as much a station in terms of aviation RT as a ground installation) or in the case of a readback, such as when replying to a clearance issued, the person receiving the message knows when it is finished as all the information has been read back.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 07:34
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'Roger' is approved and correct terminology in international aviation use, meaning 'Message received and understood'
"Roger" is the correct terminology for "understood".
WRONG!

"Roger" means, "I have received your last transmission."

Not a lot of people know that, it seems.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 07:44
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Splitting "big rabbits" on the definition Farmer?
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 08:48
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A while ago "affirm" was introduced to replace "affirmative"....for some reason it took me a while before I could say it without cringeing.

I can remember years back when ex WW2 aircrew would sometimes use the old fashioned phonetic alphabet....was that pretentiousness or habit? (by this time, the war had been over for 30 years)
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 08:56
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It is no joke.

Yeah, you get to hear some funny stuff now and then but the single accident with the largest death toll, "Tenerife", led directly to a simple change in terminology, so that we are now "Ready for departure," when we were once "Ready for takeoff." More than 500 people died for that change.

British R/T licence holders should all have a free copy of "Supplement to CAP 413/RADIO TELEPHONY MANUAL" ISBN 978 0 11790 716 4. (Also available as a download at www.caa.co.uk) Mine just showed up in the mail and I look through it every so often just to keep on the Path of Righteousness.

One that used to drive me crazy was tower controllers telling me "Roger," when I needed a crossing clearance for a runway. They were mixed up between "Cleared to cross," what I needed, and "Roger," simply meaning, "Yeah, I heard you," without any permission implied.

Another one was being told "Squawk Alfa 1234," when there is no such term, since "Mode Alfa" is simply the discrete code itself! The local controllers were convinced that "Alfa" stood for "Altitude" (Mode C) and each generation picked up this misunderstanding from the last and stuck to it.

When non-pilots listen in on the chatter they might think some of the speech is funny and they might be right but it is really just a very narrowly specialised way of passing information back and forth with each phrase having just one meaning. There is no "You say potato, I say potahto," to it when it's done correctly.

A Brit specialty is reporting "Short Finals," instead of "Short Final." Where did the plural come from in the first place, given that we only do one approach at a time?

Many Nigerians have added their own twist with "Fiver". Because both 5 and 9 have similar long vowels 9 is spoken as "Niner" with 5 becoming "Fife." That way you don't mix the two numbers up if you don't hear them 100% clearly. In Nigeria, though, you will often hear "Fiver," making a nice match for "Niner," I suppose but also defeating the purpose of the added "r". We would often quote Scripture there with the shortest verse in the New Testament, just not on the active frequency.

When you are out there sharing your existence with large, fast-moving alloy tubes crammed with people you really do need to get it exactly right each and every time. You can laugh about it later but right then and there you just need to have everything clear and unambiguous.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 09:50
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Splitting "big rabbits" on the definition Farmer?
Absolutely not. It is the legal definition of the term. Adding one's own interpretation at best causes confusion, as exemplified in Chuks' post above.
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 11:33
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Cabbage crates over the briney anyone?? Pip pip!
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 12:03
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ATC: "Farmer 1, traffic in your *garble* ....o'clock, closing, advise traffic in sight. Standby for *garble* turn in *garble* miles." Farmer 1: "Roger. (I have received [all off] your last transmission)" ------------------------> make sense? No? Roger means I received [all of] your last transmission but you'd be missing the subtle point if you think it doesn't imply understanding.
Quote:
"Roger" means, "I have received [all of] your last transmission."

ATC: "Farmer 1, wind check one niner zero at five thousand knots." Farmer 1:"Roger." ?????????????

As you say, Eclan, ???????????????????????????



Roger means I received [all of] your last transmission but you'd be missing the subtle point if you think it doesn't imply understanding.
Is that really what you meant to say? If so, you are wrong. Without being pedantic at all, I would suggest punctuation plays a most important part in imparting the meaning of a sentence. That is its purpose.

Once again, for the record, the term "Roger" certainly does not imply any understanding.

Quote:
What about 'Over' and 'Over and out'?

Quote:
no, that's not part of terminology.

'Over' and 'Out' are still accepted terminology but not NORMALLY used in VHF communication. More likely to be heard in HF communication. 'Over and out' is not official terminology.
I agree that "Over" and "Out" are accepted terminology, but "Over and out" is most certainly not, and never has been.

I don't have the book of words to hand, but "Over" means something like: "I have finished this part of the conversation, and I expect an immediate response from you."

On the other hand, "Out" means, "This conversation is finished, and I do not expect a response from you."

Both definitions are my words, but I hope I have managed to convey the meanings. So, when you hear "Over and Out" said on films and TV programmes, you know instantly that the relevant research department has failed in its duty. Can anyone think of a three-word term more nonsensical than "Over and out"?
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 12:09
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Angels

Loved the sketch. Googled the full text:

"Bally Jerry, pranged his kite right in the how's-your-father; hairy blighter, dicky-birded, feathered back on his sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harpers and caught his can in the Bertie. Cabbage crates over the briney, sausage squad up the blue end! What Ho!".

Couldn't find in CAP 413 though..!
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